If you run for office, there will be a million things you cannot control. One of those things is whether a third-party candidate runs in your race. If one does, you need to think about how their candidacy will impact your strategy, your vote goal, your fundraising, and so much more. In this special episode, Joe and Martín discuss how to shift your messaging, how to rethink your electoral math, and how to make sure a third-party candidate does not become a spoiler in your race. They also discuss Kanye West’s impact on the 2020 election as a third-party spoiler candidate.
What do U.S. Senators Bernie Sanders, Angus King, and Lisa Murkowski and rapper Kanye West have in common? They’ve all been third-party candidates! But, three of them have been legitimate third-party candidates, and one is more of a spoiler. Tune in to this special episode to learn what a third-party candidate means for your campaign and how you need to respond. A third-party candidate running in your race could just be a perennial candidate who runs for office as a hobby, or it could be a real threat to your chances of winning. As Joe and Martín point out, the worst thing you can do is ignore them. Also be sure to check out The Campaign Workshop’s Where’s Kanye? Map, which tracks the states where Kanye is on the ballot in the November 2020 presidential election.
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If you have campaign questions or want to learn more, reach out to us using the contact information below.
Twitter: @cmpwrkshp
Instagram: @TheCampaignWorkshop
Email: marketing@thecampaignworkshop.com
Joe Fuld
Twitter: @joefuld
Instagram: @joefuld
Martín Diego Garcia
Twitter: @gmartindiego
Instagram: @gmartindiego
Presented by The Campaign Workshop
(Intro Music)
Joe Fuld (00:06):
Hey folks, you're listening to How to Win a Campaign, where you'll get an insider's perspective that teaches you not only how to run, but how to win. I'm Joe Fuld.
Martín Diego Garcia (00:16):
And I'm Martín Diego Garcia, and you can find us on Twitter @CMPWRKSHP or on Instagram @thecampaignworkshop. Thanks for tuning into today's special Kanye episode on third party candidates and their impact on your races.
Joe Fuld (00:30):
So, Martín, today, we're going to talk about what happens when a third party candidate runs against you. Yes, in the words of Kanye, you better watch the throne. Republican operatives in a number of States across the nation have been working to get Kanye on the ballot, hoping he could be a spoiler in states where the electoral math is closed. There is no possibility that Kanye is going to be on enough state ballots to win, but in a race where votes and turn out in individual cities, counties, and states can have a massive difference, his candidacy can have a lasting impact.
Martín Diego Garcia (01:10):
Absolutely. I mean, think about the last election, right. And where some States it came down to two votes per precinct, right. That can make a huge difference if Kanye's on the ballot. And those two votes go for Kanye instead of an actual presidential candidate. Hello, Joe Biden. Yeah. Where is he on the ballot now?
Joe Fuld (01:25):
Well, so far, right. And there's more coming, right? He's on the ballot in Arkansas, Colorado, Oklahoma, Utah, Vermont, and will likely be on a lot more by election day, right? Minnesota, it seems like he's close to being on the ballot. We'll have some stuff on the site where you can see where Kanye is. And I want to be like super clear, right? That this is not a pro-Kanye podcast. We actually want to make sure that people understand what is going on here and how you should be planning your campaign. If you're in a local race where there's a third party candidate, that's a spoiler. Or if you're working on the Biden campaign, what are things you want to be thinking about having a third party candidate running your race makes things harder.
Martín Diego Garcia (02:11):
I mean, definitely not Yeezier, right? Especially as the clock is ticking towards election day.
Joe Fuld (02:16):
Well, that's for sure.
Martín Diego Garcia (02:17):
And here's why, right. You need to be thinking about if you have another competitor on the race, they're also competing for votes. And what this means for your campaign is you're really going to have to up your voter contact game, which may mean more phone bankers, more mail and digital, but really ultimately more voter outreach. It may also mean that your cost per vote may go up, which may result in you having to then boost your fundraising efforts and raise more money. You may have had a vote goal to begin with and now have to think about how do I inflate that a little bit to ensure that I'm accounting for this third party candidate.
Joe Fuld (02:50):
Yeah, and you've got to hunker down on your messaging. Don't let a third party candidate distract from your core values and message, but make sure your message doesn't get lost in a new conversation surrounding the third party candidate. You also want to make sure you're not ignoring the third party candidate. You want to make sure that you're Tully message box, and we talk about this a lot, needs to take into account what this third party candidate is saying about you and what the third party candidate is saying about your original opponent, vice versa. And what is the value proposition why people might be voting for this third party candidate? You really have to think about that.
Martín Diego Garcia (03:26):
Yeah. It's one of these things you just can't sleep on, right? As, as all of these documents, whether it's your messaging or your fundraising, your budget, or your, or your overall campaign plan, they're all living, breathing documents by these, as these new candidates come in, you need to go back to the drawing board to include them in those equations. But remember in the world of campaigns, that, that don't kill me only makes me stronger, but only if you do the work, right? So third party candidates running can affect both candidates nationally, as we may see right in the presidential with Kanye running against Biden and Trump but also locally where all of the lights are not focused, but the impact can still be really, really great.
Joe Fuld (04:04):
Yeah, no, I mean, listen, as far as the historical perspective goes in presidential races, someone being on the ballot, even in just a few States can have a big impact. Ross Perot, Ralph Nader, Jill Stein, they were all spoilers. Communications and research will be a key, have a message, have a plan, understand how a specific candidate may drain resources or votes, understand why people might be voting and have that conversation proactively with them about why they need to vote for your candidate and not a third party candidate. You really need to understand those defectors. You want to poll voters and see who the target demographic is. It might surprise you, right? You also want to think about how you can bring those votes over to your side, who may otherwise be voting for a third party candidate. What are ways you're using tactics like relational organizing or household voting to really engage those folks, to create some added pressure, to get people to vote for your candidate, do a message box, use it as an opportunity to engage coalitions, use the third party candidate as a way to get those coalitions engaged. And those are all things you really need to think about.
Martín Diego Garcia (05:16):
So we are not knocking running as a third party candidate, right? There are a lot of legitimate parties that are on ballots across the country, whether it's the working family parties or others, right, who are running legitimate candidates. We currently work in a two major party system, right? And so we're sort of playing the game in which we are dealt. And so you may be running as a Democrat, but there may be other legitimate candidates that are running. We are talking about, right? The difference between a Kanye who was sort of a spoiler candidate, who's literally on the ballot just to take votes. And you may know one of those people in your local community who runs for every candidacy or runs for every election and gets two to 5% of the vote every time. But that two to 5% could be the win or loss if your election comes down to a vote. So you gotta really be thinking about that.
Joe Fuld (06:01):
Absolutely. Right. I mean, again like legit third party candidates, US Senate races, like Angus King, Lisa Murkowski, right? Bernie Sanders, all won as third party candidates. And then when you get to local races, right? There's lots of local races where there is no party, it's a nonpartisan race. And so you have multiple candidates running. So again, not knocking third party candidates. There's some times where like the third party candidate is the legit candidate that's running. What we're saying is you need to take him seriously. And I think what has happened sometimes is that people don't to their own peril.
Martín Diego Garcia (06:36):
Absolutely. So make sure as you're thinking about your campaign, you're not making assumptions that there won't be an impact, right? You go back and look at your resources, look at the ways in which you're communicating with your voters, right. Which is tracking social media, tracking your voter engagement. You want to be aware of spending, right. Your own spending, as well as what are they spending and really, really think about what is, how are you investing in your community engagement to ensure that you're not only doing community engagement, but thinking about relational organizing and having your supporters talk to their friends and family, particularly under COVID and a pandemic where we're not doing as much in person or door to door or face to face, how are you organizing your supporters to then turn around and talk to the friends and family that they are in contact with? But we'll get into a lot of this right after the break. We'll be right back. To talk a little bit more about third party candidacies.
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Martín Diego Garcia (07:31):
Alright. And we're back. So Joe, any specific suggestions as local campaigns know that they have a third party candidate that is running, that they should be thinking about in terms of adjusting their strategy?
Joe Fuld (07:42):
Well, I mean, first of all, in local races, multiple candidates can and do have real impact. Whether they're a third party candidate in a general election or marginally viable candidates running in a primary, all of this can have massive impact, whether it's just in a small part of a district or throughout the entire district. So first thing is don't ignore it. If you're going to ignore it again to your peril you'll need to work harder in the words of Kanye, don't be closed on Sunday, use testimonials from specific communities to target specific groups of voters, right? Make sure that you're really using, as we talked about in the first segment, that sort of community engagement to help make sure you have a defined strategy, think about how to engage in contrastive communication and not leave out the third party candidate. Don't assume your base is going to vote for you. I think this is something that often happens is a third party candidate could come from your base and you're putting together a universal voter contact and you ignore part of your base and just focus on persuasion, especially in down ballot races. And especially this year, fall off going to be massive. And so ignoring your base that you think is going to vote for. You might again be a real problem. So think about expanding your universe to your base early, to have a conversation with them from the beginning. Don't omit the third party candidate from polls and research. This is a mistake we see people make a lot, which is they, you know, think they're only going to get a small amount. They don't research the candidate. They don't pull on the candidate again, that could be a real problem.
Martín Diego Garcia (09:27):
Definitely. And so before it all falls down,
Joe Fuld (09:31):
You get all the jokes in this episode, Martín! I want you to know, like you get all the jokes!
Martín Diego Garcia (09:36):
I'm just saying whatever a little Yeezier than you. So as you're thinking about, right, like what can you actually do when there is a third party candidate running here are a couple of tips, right? So one, when you're asking your community or engaging your community to organize around this third party candidate's impact, here's what you want to be thinking about. How do you demonstrate to your folks, right? Your base, your constituents, your community, why this third party candidate is not appealing is not the option that they should be voting for and explaining to them why, why would it actually have an adverse effect on your own candidacy, but also the vision and the platform that you're running for, right? If they've already invested in you and the vision that you're laying out for the community, and in your uh district talk about how this third party candidate can actually take that away. If you end up losing, also make sure that you have a sense of how maybe your opposition maybe using the candidacy to hurt your race so that you can respond appropriately. Are they taking votes away from only you, are they taking votes away from you and your opponent or just your opponent, right? Understand who the third party candidates actually siphoning votes from? Because sometimes if they're actually siphoning votes from your opponent, this actually may work in your favor. So also think about that, right? Lastly, understanding why some of your voters or even your opponent's voters might find that third candidate appealing and really thinking through developing a messaging to counteract that appeal. We talked about the totally box, right? What are your strengths to inoculate your, what your opposition is saying about you, but also what is your messaging that inoculates what the third party candidate may be saying, which is why folks may actually vote for that candidate?
Joe Fuld (11:15):
Well, Martín, no one man should have all that power. And a third party candidacy can make a real difference. I finally got to say a joke.
Martín Diego Garcia (11:24):
I mean, we can go on and on and on with this for a while, but we want to hear from you the listeners. So reach out to us on our social handles and that are in the description and let us know what you have questions as third party candidates are jumping into races and how you all may be adjusting your strategies or thinking about how to ensure that you're responding to that impact.
Joe Fuld (11:44):
Yeah. And again, just one more thing, right? We're not saying all third party candidates are bad. What we're saying is spoiler, vote-draining, third party candidates are bad. And this specifically the Kanye example is a really good one for us to use, you know, as a teaching tool. And also frankly, as awareness for people to be like, Hey, don't ignore it.
Martín Diego Garcia (12:08):
Right. You can't sleep on them. So we'll be right back to wrap this up.
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Joe Fuld (12:18):
And we're back. So Martín, what are some of your main takeaways on third party candidates and how they could affect campaigns this fall?
Martín Diego Garcia (12:28):
I mean, first and foremost, know your strategy around the third party candidate. We don't mean get distracted and spend all your time thinking about the third party candidate, but you should know first, right? Like how will this third party candidate impact the election? Are they siphoning votes from you, both you and your opponent or just your opponent, right? How do you be proactive? Which again means don't be closed on Sunday and engage your community folks. Right? And although it's rare, sometimes the local third party candidates can win. So you cannot sleep on them. There has to be some strategy and thought process, both in voter communication, in voter contact and in messaging that you need to be having a strategy for. Yeah.
Joe Fuld (13:08):
And I, I mean, listen, if you're new to the podcast, I think great episodes to listen to on this episode two, with Annise Parker on like being a candidate and having that narrative and message as well as episode three with Margie Omero where we talk about polling and the Tully message box both are really good episodes to, to dig into and think about. But I think you really need to make sure you have a strategy for the campaign. And as a candidate, you have to know what your message is and what the difference is between you and all the other candidates running. Again, don't ignore multiple candidates that are running for your office. Don't make an assumption that, you know, if you're running in a race where there's multiple candidates running, that you just have one opponent, you don't, you have multiple opponents. And you've got to look at all the opponents as being a drain of resources and vote. So for me, one of the most interesting examples of a third party candidate win is Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski's 2010 U S Senate race. After losing the Republican nomination to attorney Joe Miller, Murkowski launched a massive write-in campaign, encouraging her voters to support her and not vote for Miller and write her in. She won with a 39.7% of the vote while Miller lost with 35%. And it was really cute. They had graphics that were Mur-kow-ski, right. It was neat how they did it.
Martín Diego Garcia (14:41):
They had videos about how to spell her name. So they wrote it in, right. And they had bracelets that they did wear inside the polling place and had her name. They were doing all these really cool things on how to do that. So, so don't sleep on those third party candidates.
Joe Fuld (14:53):
Yeah. I mean the lesson here for a third party candidate to really win is that you need to have been, you know, you need to run a real campaign, right? If you're, if a third party candidate is going to win, they've got to run. Like they were part of another political party. And that's what Murkowski did. I mean, again, that's what, you know, you've seen the successful large scale, independent candidates that have a shot to win. They're running real campaigns. So you'll want to really think through that. And you want to, but from my perspective, it's just making sure that you understand usually on the local level, the places where it's going to drain votes and then on the national level, really making sure you're having a conversation and not, not ignoring the fact that these third party candidates are on the ballot.
Martín Diego Garcia (15:43):
No, that's totally right. Right. Voting for a third party candidate in the vast majority of races is probably going to be a spoiler for the two major party candidates, right? So again, are they taking votes from you, your opponent, both of you, right. Well, who are the folks that they are communicating with that may peel off and vote for them? But a third party candidate, it doesn't have to be a monster in the end, right. They can actually be an opportunity or at least you could make lemons into the number one with lemonade. Right. But think about what your strategy is there and how you need to adjust your vote goal, adjust your plan, adjust your messaging to account for them.
Joe Fuld (16:17):
Yeah. I mean, it's just being thoughtful and really, you know, putting yourself in a position where you're looking at all the different potential outcomes that are gonna affect your race and your campaign, and frankly, having a community conversation. You know, when you sort of ignore these conversations and ignore candidates is when they do sneak up on you, you want to make sure you're having a real conversation and a thoughtful dialogue about what the potential is. And if somebody is voting for a third party candidate, they may have a reason. They may feel disaffected, right. They may feel like no one represents them, no one engages with them. And no one is having a conversation with them. So have the conversation. I think that to me is like how you reduce, reduce fall off how you reduce like the, the minor candidate voting is all about communication and communicating more, not less. And if you ignore segments of your vote, you do that to your peril.
Martín Diego Garcia (17:19):
Absolutely. Right. Some of these folks who are going to peel off and vote for Kanye may not be your traditional voters. Right. And so, as you're thinking about how do you also expand the electorate? You can think about who are the voters that you could potentially communicate to and have that conversation who may not be like all the time, always voters, but because, because you are in the race, they may jump in and start becoming a voter.
Joe Fuld (17:46):
Yeah. And so, I mean, we're going to have, we'll be tracking the impact of Kanye we'll have some info on the website. So check it out. We'll put it in the show notes. Thanks for tuning in for this special episode on Kanye and third party candidates. Until next time, this is Joe Fuld...
Martín Diego Garcia(18:05):
And I'm Martín Diego Garcia breaking down how to win a campaign.
Joe Fuld (18:10):
How to Win a Campaign is Joe Fuld, Martín Diego Garcia, Hope Rohrbach, Daniel Lam, Heidi Job, and Elena Veatch. Music by Mike Pinto. Sound editing by The Global Startup Movement. Special thanks to the team at The Campaign Workshop. Please review, like, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
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