If money is what makes the world go ’round, it’s also what makes advocacy work possible. Without sufficient fundraising, your efforts may not reach the audiences it needs to or have the impact you expected. That’s why you need a solid fundraising operation that implements best practices learned over years of experience. That’s why this week, Joe and Martín explain key tips like where to find donors, how to test your pitch, the role of research and messaging in fundraising, and Joe’s time-tested RAT method. This episode’s guest is professional fundraiser Joe Sangirardi, who will teach you how to think about fundraising as a science and reveal the top pieces of information you must know going into any conversation with a potential donor.
Fundraising is the lifeblood of advocacy work. Without steady, diversified revenue streams, nonprofits would not be able to fight the good fight day in and day out. In this episode, Joe and Martín share important lessons they’ve learned from years of advocacy work and training that will help you improve your quarterly reports. Tune in to learn how to connect your ask to a potential donor’s daily life, what materials you must have on hand in case a donor asks for them, and how using the RAT method will change your fundraising for good. Martín chats with professional fundraiser Joe Sangirardi of the Human Rights Campaign, who will explain how he’s adapted to fundraising during COVID and how you should reframe your thinking about fundraising as a science and a profession.
Resources
Advocacy Fundraising vs. Political Fundraising
7 Questions with Jason Mida about Nonprofit Fundraising
How Can I Build My List for Fundraising?
Connect with us!
If you have campaign questions or want to learn more, reach out to us using the contact information below.
Twitter: @cmpwrkshp
Instagram: @TheCampaignWorkshop
Email: marketing@thecampaignworkshop.com
Joe Fuld
Twitter: @joefuld
Instagram: @joefuld
Martín Diego Garcia
Twitter: @gmartindiego
Instagram: @gmartindiego
Presented by The Campaign Workshop
(Intro Music)
Martín Diego Garcia (00:08):
Hey folks, you're listening to How to Win an Advocacy Campaign where you'll get an insider's perspective that teaches you not only how to fight for what you believe in, but how to win. I'm Martín Diego Garcia
Joe Fuld (00:18):
And I'm Joe Fuld. And you can find us @CMPWRKSHP on Twitter or @thecampaignworkshop on Instagram. Welcome, and thanks for listening to episode nine of How to Win an Advocacy Campaign. On the last episode, we had a conversation with former Yang traveling press secretary, and PR wiz Erick Sanchez about advocacy communications. We talked about some useful tips for your organization and how you can improve your communications in some very easy ways. We also talked about some of Erick's most interesting projects like getting Kenny Loggins to play in his living room and making Fouch on the couch pillows in honor of Dr. Anthony Fauci. If you've not heard the episode, it is a real winner.
Martín Diego Garcia (01:05):
It's a hoot. And today we're going to be talking about fundraising for advocacy and really breaking down how to do it effectively, how it has changed during COVID and the pandemic what you need to be doing to set yourself up for success and think about a quarterly calendar. Most organizations who are working in the nonprofit advocacy space are likely deemed under the tax status of a 501(c)(3) or potentially 501(c)(4). And what that means is you need to raise money for your operation in the same way campaigns do, right. It would be contributions from individual donors, individual funders, philanthropic organizations, and other folks who can give directly to your organization. I think most of the most important things you need to be thinking about when you're building out your fundraising program is in the same way as you're communicating to your audience, it is about them and not you, right? It is going to be about the donor and, and your funders versus about you as an organization. The other thing I think you want to be thinking about is your different types of revenue streams that we'll get into later in the episode, but making sure you're not putting all your eggs in one basket in terms of where your money is coming from. So Joe, what are some things that organizations or listeners need to be thinking about when building out their fundraising operations?
Joe Fuld (02:19):
Well, so whoever is raising money for an organization, whether that's a low dollar fundraiser or a high dollar fundraiser, someone who's a volunteer, someone who's on staff, they really need to understand the mission of the organization and be able to explain it clearly the organization itself needs to understand the mission and be able to explain it as well. You think that that would be understood, but I'm telling you, I have been through this where making sure that people are clear about the goals and the mission of the organization and how to explain what that is and how to get people vested in, it takes time. It's a building block that sometimes people miss. And I think one of the easiest ways to figure this out is if you work on an organization, if you work in an organization, if you work on their board, right, pick up the phone, call a few friends and ask them for money. If they're willing to give you money, you know, you've got something. If you can explain why, if the close people closest to you are not willing to write a check to this organization, you're probably need to work on the pitch. So, ways to build this fundraising capacity and to really get that going is you need to look at your existing contacts for guidance and advice. You need to go to board members who serve on the board of other organizations, where they have experienced fundraising and learn from your board, learn from people around your organization. And then you need to start building your list, thinking about potential donors. UI like the saying of building the house with the rocks around your feet, go to people that you know, and really start building those, that infrastructure of people who can help engage and raise money for the organization who care about it, who care about the mission, make sure you're continuing to work on that pitch and you'll get there. And you'll really be able to explain to folks why this organization is important. So again, coalitions can be a source of actual individuals to join a board, to help fundraise. Maybe it's someone who cycled off the board of another organization. You can get them to come over to your organization. Maybe it's content marketing, putting out content that talks about what you're doing and getting people to sign up to an email list or do advocacy, and then move through a funnel of engagement to really start raising money for your organization. So Martín, once an organization has a fundraising operation set up, what are some of the best practices they should know about?
Martín Diego Garcia (04:54):
Yeah. I think to reiterate what you said about the messaging piece of it, think of your donors and your stakeholders as a, another target audience when you're crafting your message. Right? So if you're crafting your message because you're running a campaign because you're building your organization, right? You're talking to legislators or you're talking to your community, you're talking to influencers, et cetera. You're going to be changing the message, right? Depending on who you're talking to, your donors, your funders, your investors are going to be that same thing, right? You have to figure out what is important to them. And I think one of the most important tools you have in your fundraising toolkit, right, is your ask or your pitch. And you want to figure out what works and that's going to be in the same way that you test digital and email and your messaging to hone in. You want to experiment with your asks as well, right? What data points are you highlighting? What, in what ways are you asking them and how are you asking them, right? What information are you giving them and figure out what is resonating with your donors versus what is not because not every donor is going to be the same.
Joe Fuld (05:53):
Yeah. And we've talked about this in previous episodes, tell a story, people love story. We're wired for stories, that story of how you got involved in the organization, how you learned about it, why the mission is so important, telling that story, personalizing it. That is a good way to raise money. So really think of that storytelling, listen to, you know, our episode on storytelling. I think that can help you.
Martín Diego Garcia (06:20):
Definitely, and I think that goes to research, right? Which is the next really important, best practice is understanding why your donor gives is going to be critically important to upping the chances that they're actually going to donate to your campaign, to your organization, right? It'll prevent you from wasting time and resources on folks who don't donate. Right? So there, there are a number of different ways in which you can set up systems to figure out this information of who's given to other organizations that are similar to you in the past, who has fundraising or donor history, right. That you can fall into, that's going to make them much more likely to give to your organization your cause your campaign, if they've already had a history of doing that. Right. But you also want to think about who are they, what kind of interests do they have, right. If you have a organization that is dedicated to reproductive justice rights, right? You may be thinking about where are pockets of individuals who may be interested in reproductive justice, right? If you were looking at environmentally focused organizations, right, you may think about who are folks who are engaging in the environment right now, bikers, hikers, campers, right? Like people who have recently bought RVs because we're in quarantine. Right. My parents. And thinking about, would they be a potential donor because they are enjoying these things in their day-to-day life, how do you connect it to the donor? Right. And so thinking about all of those different pieces of research are going to be super, super helpful. And then you also want to make sure in terms of best practices, right, is that you're prepared. You want to be prepared with the information your donor may be asking for, even before you speak with them, right. Should you should have a one pager or some talking points that you're able to send about your organization, your work, where the money is going to go, right. How, how specific can you be in terms of allowing the donor to understand what they are going to be contributing to and what they're going to be investing in. And also obviously remember to thank them, whether they give you money or not, thank them at the very least for their time. But Joe, when it comes to making the ask, what advice do you have for fundraisers who now are probably on the phone or on a Zoom, right. With potential donors. And it's time to pop the question. What should they be thinking about?
Joe Fuld (08:29):
So, when I first started out working in politics Len Lucci, who worked with me into my first campaign and has been a friend for a really long time, told me this very simple method, which is called the RAT method, which is reason, amount, and time. And that has been part of my fundraising, whether it's been for politics or for advocacy ever since then. And it's really, really easy to remember: reason, the reason why people should give, the amount, which is the specific dollar amount you're asking for, and when you need the check by, the time. So reason, amount and time, every ask has to have those three components. So if you can remember that you can give a really good fundraising pitch. The other thing that I've learned is to pause after you ask people for money, one of the ways that I do this, because I used to be horrible about this. Cause I talk a lot. You've learned this from this podcast. So one of the things that I would do is put a glass of water next to me. And when I would ask people for money, I would take a sip of a water, the bigger, the ask, the bigger, the glass of water. So I would try and drink as much water as I could until I heard a response back. You want to program yourself not to cut people off and let them respond to your ask. You want to make sure that that ask is based on research, right? Having an understanding of what they've given in the past. You can do some of that. You can talk to other campaigns who might have worked with this donor in the past to get a greater understanding of what this person has given. And you also want to make sure that you don't limit yourself based on your own personal resources and biases, which is a mistake. I think a lot of people make, which is, Hey, I don't have a lot of money, but I'm asking someone else for more money than I have. Therefore I should ask them for the same amount I can give, not necessarily true. And I will tell you, in my experience, people have never been offended by being asked for too much money. They've been offended when you ask them for too little money. And so I would say, really think about that. Be thoughtful about your ask, give them plenty of time. And then if somebody says, no, right, have a conversation about what the barrier is, right. Why was it the, you know, just ask a few questions is the mission of the organization. Something you agree with or you want to be a part of. Did I ask you for too much money? I mean, those are all things that you can learn from. So try and use this as a learning opportunity. But the other thing is don't be defensive in asking questions, right? If there are barriers that come up say, Hey, should I ask you again in a few months? Should I come back to you? Is there another way that you can contribute? Don't take no for an answer. Just don't if they say no, don't hang up the phone and say goodbye, try and engage. So those are ways that I have really built rapport and engagement over time. So Martín, now that you know, we're in COVID and will be for, for a long time, how has fundraising changed?
Martín Diego Garcia (11:47):
Definitely, there's a few ways in which fundraising has changed, obviously for a lot of organizations, events was a really huge part of your revenue stream and that isn't happening right now, or at least not happening in the in-person way. We know it, right. Galas and dinners, et cetera. And so you have to be thinking creatively about how do we use what we have right now. And continuing, like Joe said, right? To build that personal relationship, those personal bonds, those personal touches and, and do more in-depth research on these, these humans of what would make them give particularly right now, we're going through a pandemic. A lot of people have been hit hard, but not everybody. Right? So it is, I will give you the the go-ahead or the, the validation that it is still okay for you to be asking for money from donors because the causes and the campaigns and the efforts in which you all are fighting for have likely not stopped. Right. And, and in some cases have probably gotten worse. And so this work is still really important. So it's okay for you to continue to ask these donors for money, but you may be thinking of different ways of doing it, right. Is it doing it over the phone? Is it doing it via zoom? Is it doing it in different ways in which you can communicate with them? Because we can't be as in person, as we would like to be right now.
Joe Fuld (13:00):
Yeah. And I would say, think if you're doing a zoom fundraiser, think of a cool hook for it. Maybe it's a trivia night. Maybe it's a, like, I don't know a room with goats in it. You need to think about a way that you have an interesting hook people. I I'll just tell you me. I am dying to figure out a way to engage with people and get it like out of my house, even if it's virtually. So if you invite me to your goat, Zoom fundraiser, I very well might show up. I'll be inundated with goat Zoom fundraiser, like invites. You wait. But my point being is, find something interesting, find a way to make this, not just, Hey, we're going to have a zoom in all get together, which you might get your friends to do, but having a little bit of a hook, make it interesting. And you'd be surprised. My bet is you're going to raise more money that way and get better engagement than you'd think.
Martín Diego Garcia (13:51):
And as Joe said, I think offering different ways of engagement, particularly for folks who, for whatever reason, because of the pandemic or other ways we maybe unemployed, maybe supporting somebody else who was unemployed, right. Thinking of different ways in which they can, they can engage. Right? So instead of giving a hundred dollars, can they sign up for a phone bank, right? Can they do, can they text their friends about your organization? Can they share it on social media and start building them up a ladder of engagement or as, or as Joe mentioned an engagement funnel, right. To get them to hire us that hopefully when they do have the capacity, they have built such a trust and a relationship with your organization, your group, your campaign that they're already willing to give.
Joe Fuld (14:28):
That's right. I mean, those are really great ideas. And we're excited to hear from Joe Sangirardi, who's got a ton more ideas on this. He's an expert in advocacy fundraising, and he's going to share with us ways that he has been able to adapt to COVID-19 and what your organization should be doing to improve your quarterly engagement and fundraising. So we'll be back with Joe.
(Music)
Martín Diego Garcia (15:09):
And we're back. And I am joined here by a dear friend of mine, Joe Sangirardi. Thank you for being with us.
Joe Sangirardi (15:15):
Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Martín Diego Garcia (15:17):
Joe is a professional fundraiser with expertise in nonprofit advocacy and political fundraising. He currently serves as the associate director of leadership giving at the Human Rights Campaign and formerly served as the development director at the LGBTQ Victory Fund and Institute in his work to advance LGBTQ equality, Joe connects equality minded philanthropists with opportunities to make substantive impact in the fight for full legal equality for the LGBTQ community. As a member of that community, thank you for the work that you're doing.
Joe Sangirardi (15:48):
Happy to be doing it, trying to just get a quality for the rest of us.
Martín Diego Garcia (15:51):
I mean, right, hello. As we jumped right in here, can you talk to us a little bit about how you got into the fundraising field and why you stayed in it?
Joe Sangirardi (15:59):
Yeah. I mean, to start off, you know, I've always been involved and interested in politics and when I was, you know, coming to graduation from college, I kept on thinking like, what can I do? What kind of impact can I make? What can I do politically? And I realized that, you know, I mean, this was a couple of years, a few years after Citizens United, where politics was flooding, you know, money was flooding politics. And I just kept on thinking it's money. We've got to do, we've got to raise money to fix the system, right? So I wound up getting a job in my Alma mater the University of Oklahoma after graduation working in fundraising because I wanted to learn the traps of it. You know, how it works, what strategies are effective. And that's really kind of how I've stuck with it. I worked at the University for about a year and a half, and then I realized, you know, I started an LGBTQ scholarship for the university. I realized I really cared about that area, but I knew that it was time to kind of move into the political space, the advocacy space. And that's because that's where my heart really lived. So ultimately that's, as you mentioned earlier I previously worked at the LGBTQ Victory Fund and Institute and that's what led me there.
Martín Diego Garcia (17:08):
Yeah. I mean, for uh, as we talk about a lot of folks, their first desire around doing advocacy work is not necessarily raising the money, although as we know money make the world go round and, and it makes obviously advocacy work possible. So I'm, I am glad that there are good people who are out there doing it like yourself. As our listeners are thinking about whether they are fundraising for the work that they're doing, or they're working with a fundraiser, what would make a good fundraiser for advocacy? Are there specific qualities or characteristics that folks should look for in a fundraiser, whether they're hiring it internally or thinking about bringing on a consultant.
Joe Sangirardi (17:43):
It's a good question. It's a big question. I think the, the simple answer that I would always come to is find a believer, right? I mean, you need to be somebody who believes in the work non-profits, aren't known for paying their employees well. We're not known for having, you know, a million different resources you can use to figure things out. It, it really requires a sort of resiliency. And I think that being a true believer and really understanding what the work is and wanting to dedicate yourself to it is an essential part of that. So, I mean, I would say that that's the number one thing. Then it gets a little bit I'll change gears a little bit and beyond being a true believer I think you have to be mentally agile enough to accept that fundraising is also a science. It's not just about caring about the work. It's about understanding that fundraising like any other profession is a profession. There is a science to it. There are techniques, there's experimentation. There are so many different ways you can go about it, but you really have to focus in on that. And there's this, there's this inherent tension that you want to deliver for the work and you want to raise the money for it. But also that you might feel like you're, you have to get pushy, right. Or you might have to be aggressive, or you might have to make an ask that you weren't necessarily thinking of before in order to reach that goal. And I think that it's important. When you look at fundraising through the perspective of being a science, being a profession, I think it really helps you kind of understand and frame the experiences that you're going through as you pursue that.
Martín Diego Garcia (19:09):
Yeah. I think there has been through whether it's family or upbringing or just living in America, right. This idea of like money is taboo. I like to talk about money as taboo to ask people for money as a weird thing. We're not sort of naturally raised to do these types of things, but we have no problem asking people to volunteer or go canvassing or do a phone bank, right. Or show up to an event. And yet it's always the money piece that sort of gives people to hiccup. And I think one fundraiser that I had worked with always said, you know, people can donate and give in different ways. Right? Some people donate their time and volunteer, right? Like some people donate their networks and their connections, and some people don't have the time to do those two things so they can donate money. Right. So you're just giving them the opportunity to invest which goes to that science, right, of like, there are tactics when you're doing the field work, right. You contact a person three or four times to confirm that they're going to show up for that canvass or that phone bank. Right. The same goes for fundraising. You have to figure out what that process is and what that, what those techniques are.
Joe Sangirardi (20:09):
I mean, if I can add, you know, part of the going from both believing in the work and feeling for the work, that's such a strong driver for fundraisers when it comes to nonprofits. But when you're able to look at fundraising as more of a science, when you get a, no, it doesn't quite hurt the same. Right. If you're purely coming at it from the experience of like doing this because it feels good or because you feel you're making a difference and getting a no, when you make an ask for someone to invest in your organization or your cause, that can feel so demoralizing and disruptive. Right. And it can actually feel like an indictment of your self-worth and your life and how you're spending your time. But when look at it from a science perspective, you realize, well, it takes three asks to get someone to a yes. So you're automatically going to get several nos and you know, that statistically you're going to get no's before you get to a yes. Right? Yeah. And also when you, when you make an ask, you're not just asking someone for resources, you're, you know, we, we think of fundraising as this, like one directional sort of experience where I as a fundraiser, I'm asking this person who might have money or does have money, you know, to invest in my cause, but we're also offering them something. Right. I can't tell you the number of times where I've been reached out to, by someone asking me for money and, you know, I'll agree to a coffee or something, and they'll tell me a story about their nonprofit. And all of a sudden, I never realized how much I cared about what they're doing. Right. And I'm like, yes, I didn't, I had no idea this was an issue, but yes, I went to help with that. Yes. I want to fix that. Like, and the pride and excitement that I felt from that, like I also get something from that experience. And as a fundraiser, you are providing other individuals on a consistent basis, an opportunity to change the world, to make a substantive difference in the lives of other people, whether or not it's, you know, in their own neighborhood or across the world, like you're giving them a chance. And every ask you don't make from someone every time you don't send that email or don't make that call to ask someone to invest in your cause. You're taking an opportunity away from them to invest in it and to feel like they're actually making a difference.
Martín Diego Garcia (22:12):
I think we can wrap right there. I think that, I think you just nailed it on its head. No, I'm just kidding, but no, but absolutely right. It's super inspiring when you think about it and you can sort of switch the framing in your head from being like, Ooh, fundraising of this scary thing to this idea of like, no, it's just an avenue in which folks can make an impact. Right. It's just a different avenue. And if you think about it the same, it may make it a little bit easier. So as you, as you get to the ask part, and you've mentioned this a couple of times, right? You're you finally get there and you're going to make the ask for a specific amount of money. Right. What are some key components that fundraisers should include when they're making that ask?
Joe Sangirardi (22:46):
I mean, you already said one of the most important words, which is specific. I think a lot of us, you know I can't remember the last time I had a call or I can't remember the last time at a meeting period because, you know, with COVID times, but like, I can't remember the last time I had a, a meeting in which I was going to make an ask that I didn't know beforehand specifically what I was going to be asking for. So, you know, I mean, I raised for a c3 c4, you know, to a nonprofit and advocacy organization, a super pac, I've raised for candidates. I rarely ever go into a meeting or conversation without knowing specifically what my goal is to ask. Right. Even though that might not be what they ultimately give. I have a very clear picture in my head of that. And I also think that it's important to have a couple backups. Right. You know, if you're going to ask somebody for, let's just say like $5,000, like that might be the first ask and they might say no. So it's important to, you know, $5,000. Might've not been the right ask. It might be the right ask, but it might be the first time. And they're just really not sure they might have a financial situation, whatever it might be, but it's important to then have a specific second ask. Well, can you do $2,500? Well, do you know a few people who might be interested in contributing, you know, do you know anyone who might be able to contribute $5,000 or five people who might be able to contribute a thousand dollars?
Martín Diego Garcia (24:05):
So you talked a little bit about, right. Like personal ask, individual asks, you set up a meeting with an individual donor or supporter, right. To ask for money. What are some other different ways that advocacy organizations, campaigns could raise money for their, for their organizations or their cause?
Joe Sangirardi (24:20):
There are so many ways. And I think one of the one of the challenges, a lot of organizations and fundraisers have is that they think very or too narrowly about what fundraising is and how it's done. And they assume that it is all meetings or a call, right? When in reality, like most nonprofits have what we call like revenue streams, whether it's email, texting, snail mail yes meetings calls there are events, events are huge, right? Like there are so many different ways. And I think any successful nonprofit is going to try to diversify their revenue streams in several different areas, have strategies for each, regardless of what size the organization is, allowing that diversification of revenue from different places, whether it's events and meetings and email, let's just say those three, right. Allows you to kind of stabilize your budget and your revenue for the organization in a way that allows you to get a little bit more creative and expand, right. When you put all of your eggs into one basket. I mean, imagine in COVID times an organization that funds 90% of its annual operating budget based off of events, where is that organization today? Right. I mean, they are, they are struggling. They've laid off people like they're, you know, having a really hard time, but having diversity allows that, you know, while they've been building up all of these different revenue streams, they're able to experiment in different ways during these strange COVID, you know, fundraising environment and find ways to make up for that deficit. You know, I think as an example right now you know, the other night I, I worked with a lot of major donors and we had a major donor social. Right. And it was, it was not the sort of, you know, we have events throughout the year, all the time generally, but we haven't had a lot since COVID started. And as a result, you know, we find that not all of our major donors want, you know, to socialize with one another, a lot of them don't, you know, some people they want to write a check, some people just want to call once a year or a couple of times a year. Maybe you want an email with, you know, a white paper on, you know, different things that organizations working on. But you know, we had 20 people on a call the other night which is a very high number considering the small universe of people that we invited to it. And they loved it. And these are, these are folks who to be social, you know? And that's that in of itself is meeting the donors where they are and providing some value for them beyond just asking them for money. And donor supporters. They care when they see that you're investing time and energy and that you care. Right. So even if you're sending an invitation, an invitation for an event that they don't want to come to, or they're not interested in, people appreciate the invitation. People appreciate the effort that you're putting into it and that you put something together in case they do want to join.
Martín Diego Garcia (27:15):
I wasn't going to be invited, I mean, I wasn't going to go, but I wanted to be invited.
Joe Sangirardi (27:18):
Right. That's exactly right. I wanted to have the opportunity to say no.
Martín Diego Garcia (27:23):
Exactly. I want to have the opportunity to not show up. No, exactly. But right, they're not ATM machines, right. You're treating them as actual human beings. Like they're actual people who you, you are building these relationships with, which sort of takes me to my next topic here around as listeners or building out a fundraising plan, which is what you're talking about as you're thinking about different streams of revenue, how you're doing research on your donors. Right. Are there other key components that they should be thinking about as they're building out a fundraising planet and trying to achieve their goals? Yeah.
Joe Sangirardi (27:52):
I mean the first big thing is budget, right? I mean, the question is what are you trying to accomplish and what will it cost? Right. I think a lot of people, they might start from the perspective of like, well, what can I raise? And like, let's just define what I can do with the amount of money that I'm able to raise. Right. But a lot of times when you're starting out on an initiative or an organization, like you don't actually know what you're going to be able to raise, so you need to have some sort of a vision and the vision is what you're able to sell. So I think having, putting together some sort of a budget and having subsequent budgets the second is of course the fundraising plan itself. Right. Which also should be a part of the budget because it costs money to raise money. Right. What do you, how much are you trying to raise? Where are you going to raise it from? How much can you raise from the different revenue streams? How can you make those consistent? And who else can you bring in to help you with it?
Martín Diego Garcia (28:45):
You talked about this a little bit in terms of relationships with the donors and those being super critical to the success of your fundraising career. Right. When I mentioned any tips for our listeners, as they're thinking about best ways to build those relationships with their donors and supporters.
Joe Sangirardi (29:01):
Yeah. I mean relationships are key and, you know, people will invest in you as much as you invest in them and they'll do so to their own ability, just like you do so to your own ability. So I think it's important to legitimately be interested, genuinely be interested in learning about the donor, learning about their lived experience, learn about what they care about, ask them questions from a cynical side of things, people like talking about themselves, right. But like from a purely like human perspective, like people like getting to learn about each other and find opportunities to connect and like figure out what shared interests they have. And like, so make sure that you ask questions and allow yourself to be vulnerable, like allow yourself to like, talk about your lived experience and why this organization is important to you. I also think that building trust is one of the hardest things to do, especially with you know, when you're meeting somebody for the first time you're making an ask and they think that, Oh, this person just thinks I'm an ATM. They just want the money they're going to be gone. Like, so again, lead with the vulnerability. And when they ask you a question, be direct, answer it, don't talk around it. Don't try to come up with, you know, extravagant, you know, work around to try to make them think that you've answered the question, be direct, vulnerable, tell them like, I don't know the answer, but let me please give me the opportunity to come back to you. Right. And I think that being that honest with someone, I both, I think it's a sign of respect. I think it builds trust. And you're more likely to continue building the relationship because of that.
Martín Diego Garcia (30:37):
Yeah. Yeah. As you're saying these things right. About being vulnerable and telling your personal story and doing your research right, it's all things that we talk about in other episodes in terms of how do you tell your personal story and do storytelling, right? How do you do targeting and data in terms of who you should be communicating with, whether it's community organizing or legislative action and it's, it's those same fundamentals that you adapt to fundraising, right. To still be effective relationship building, et cetera. You've mentioned this a couple of times, right? As we live in the land of COVID now and are still sort of trying to navigate and figure out what that means for what our new reality is going to be. Obviously the fund raising world has changed as has everything else since the pandemic started. Are there ways in creative ways in which you all have adapted in which you've thought about things that organizations should be thinking about as they adapt to these changes?
Joe Sangirardi (31:30):
Yeah. I think my first thought when all this was happening, when all this kind of started and we weren't really sure where it was going to go was how do we, how do we keep the folks who've been investing with us the longest, right? How do we show them that we appreciate their support. We respect the investment they've made in the organization. And how do we keep them? Because, you know, finding new people to support a cause is expensive, right? It takes a lot of time and energy. And when, you know, I mean, nonprofits across the board have seen a decline in funding since the pandemic started. And it's really hard for organizations. So who are the folks you are gonna look to? You're gonna look to your core supporters. The people who've been there for the longest. And I think that, you know, our natural inclination is going to be to ask them for a lot more money or ask all of these other people for money and focus on like all of the new dollars. Right. But you need to focus on the fundamentals and know that, you know, these people have invested with you for a long time for a reason. So make them feel valued and appreciated. I think that that's the big, the biggest thing, you know, we also, you have in this moment, you'll have donors may have supported you for a long time, but they've hit hard times. A lot of folks have. And I think it's leading with empathy, you know, saying thank you so much for your support. We understand that you can't, you know, contribute right now. Like, would you mind if I reached out in a few months to see if things have changed, right. And you know, and in the meantime, you know, please don't worry about it. Like we're going to keep you on the books. Like we will still invite you to things like, please, we're not here to provide you any stress. I just want to let you know how much we appreciate you. And I hope you'll give us the opportunity to ask if you can continue to support in a few months. Right. So that's, that's just one perspective I think, to go into it with, and I think that this is if ever there were a moment to be creative when it comes to fundraising, this is it right. I mean, we had a major donor social on Zoom, right? Like, I will tell you when we first started, when everything shut down, there were all these zoom happy hours and stuff. And we, I got zoomed out. I was so over it, so done. Didn't like it, right. It's been a few months now. I think people have been able to kind of reign it in a bit and you know, people, these folks hadn't seen each other in so long, you know, and they're used to seeing each other at least a few times a year and they loved it.
Martín Diego Garcia (33:46):
Well, thank you, Joe, for joining us on this episode,
Joe Sangirardi (33:49):
I'm happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me. I've enjoyed it.
Martín Diego Garcia (33:52):
Yeah, I'm sure. And I hope the listeners got as much out of your experience and your expertise and your insights as I did. And if you want to learn more about the work that Joe is doing over the human rights campaign, we will put that in the episode notes. And so please reach out if you have any other questions and as it regard to advocacy fundraising, but we'll be right back.
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Joe Fuld (34:25):
And we're back. That was a great interview. Some of the things that Joe talked about, which I think are critical to fundraising is you really want to think about having, if you're hiring a fundraiser, a fundraiser that understands the cause and wants to dedicate themselves to it and really can engage with it. Personally, you need to understand that fundraising is, is both a science and an art, and it's an important tactic that you ask for money in a real compelling way. Fundraising can lead to substantial change in an organization. It can lead to substantial change in a community and you need to be it needs to be viewed as an invitation to invest in a movement. And it's important to have a first and a second ask planned as you're asking people for money.
Martín Diego Garcia (35:17):
Well, I mean, you heard it from Joe, but I, there are so many different ways in which you can fundraise outside of in-person events. Right. And, and you should be thinking creatively about what those look like. Is it doing a wine tasting? Is it doing a bingo night or a trivia night online, right? Like what are ways in which you can engage in the digital space that you can still continue to raise money even under a pandemic? I think one of the other important things that Joe mentioned, right, is how do you think constantly about diversifying your revenue streams? You want to be thinking about right, philanthropic donating, grants, right? Have that pocket of money, individual donors who are, who are low dollar donors, who may be coming in through virtual events prior in person events, email asks, et cetera. As well as big and larger and individual donors who are giving you the $25,000 or $50,000, a hundred thousand dollars personal checks. Right? And so we thinking about ways in which you have different pockets of money, just in case one of those pockets dries up you don't want to your organization to have again, put all of their eggs in one basket. And so think about different ways in which you can diversify your revenue stream. I mean, it doesn't really matter the number of people you have dedicated to fundraising in your organization. Even if you have one person who is doing fundraising, there are different, easy ways that they can incorporate different methods to bring in resources, to your campaign, into your organization, to the efforts that you're doing.
Joe Fuld (36:45):
Yeah. And again, back to the original point you made, which is people still want to be social just socially distant, right? So think of those unique zoom ideas, drop us a note. If you want ideas for a Zoom, I'm sure that Martín and I can come up with a couple for ya, but you need to keep people updated on what is going on. Keep them informed that can help with like an email back and forth, and frankly donations through email. And although people may not be in an economic position to donate right now, when you keep them in the loop and you give them other things to do, they will come back to you. So you just need to keep that communication going and you need to give people the opportunity to say, no, no, I can't give now, but maybe later, no, I can't give that much, but I can give a little less or I can do a monthly gift over time. No, I can't give money, but I can give my time. Those are things that can be really important.
Martín Diego Garcia (37:46):
Right? And remember the RAT method, reason amount and time, the more specific that you can be in terms of making your to a donor based on the research you've done on them and what you know about them, the higher, the likelihood that they're going to invest in the vision and the campaign and the effort that you're running. Right? So think about who those folks are so that you can continue to build those relationships, right? Relationships are going to be key, particularly in fundraising to build them long-term so that they're not just giving ones, but they become maybe a monthly donor. They become a donor who you can rely on campaign after campaign effort, after effort who understand the long-term investment in the work that you all are doing. And that's only going to be built through maintaining those relationships, keeping folks informed and understanding who the donor is and why they are giving.
Joe Fuld (38:33):
Well, that is wrap a for this episode, thanks for listening in, if you have specific questions or not specific questions, let us know. We're happy to chat with you about fundraising. And we'd love to hear more from you, contact us using the social media and email addresses into the description.
Martín Diego Garcia (38:52):
Definitely. And on our next episode, we're really excited to be talking a bit to a dear friend of ours. Katie Belanger, about what happens when advocacy goes wrong, dun, dun, dun. We'll discuss how to prevent your advocacy campaign from going off the rails and what to do if it does. So be sure to tune into that episode.
Joe Fuld (39:08):
Until next time. This is Joe Fuld,
Martín Diego Garcia (39:11):
And this is Martín Diego Garcia breaking down how to win an advocacy campaign.
Martín Diego Garcia (39:14):
How to Win an Advocacy Campaign is Joe Fuld, Martín Diego Garcia, Hope Rohrbach, Daniel Lam, Heidi Job, and Elena Veatch. Music by Mike Pinto. Sound editing by the Global Startup Movement. Special thanks to the team at The Campaign Workshop. Remember to review like, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
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