Canvassing your district door to door is one of the best ways to make contact with voters in your district. Nothing beats in-person contact and conversations with voters about the issues they care about. In this episode, Joe and Martín discuss the importance of canvassing and how to do it effectively. Carmen Berkley of Dancing Hearts Consulting speaks with Joe about some of her experiences canvassing and tells a story that proves just how important canvassing is to winning your election.
There is no better way to get to know the constituents in your district than going right up to their door and talking to them. Canvassing is essential, and it often becomes the most fun part of any campaign! Getting to know your neighbors, listening to the issues they care about, and telling them how you can help are key to not only convince them to choose you over your opponents, but also to convince them to turn out to the polls on election day. This week, Joe and Martín talk about the importance of canvassing and share some of their favorite stories from the field. Joe chats with Carmen Berkley, Chief Strategy Officer of Dancing Hearts Consulting, about her own experiences with canvassing, how to do it effectively, and how canvassing can and will help you win.
Resources
7 Questions with Dave Fleischer about Deep Canvassing
Connect with us!
If you have campaign questions or want to learn more, reach out to us using the contact information below.
Twitter: @cmpwrkshp
Instagram: @TheCampaignWorkshop
Email: marketing@thecampaignworkshop.com
Joe Fuld
Twitter: @joefuld
Instagram: @joefuld
Martín Diego Garcia
Twitter: @gmartindiego
Instagram: @gmartindiego
Presented by The Campaign Workshop
(Intro Music)
Joe Fuld (00:06):
Hey friends, you're listening to How to Win a Campaign where you get an insider's perspective that teaches you not only how to run but how to win. I'm Joe Fuld
Martín Diego Garcia (00:18):
And I'm Martín Diego Garcia and you can reach us @CMPWRKSHP on Twitter or on Instagram you can find us @thecampaignworkshop. Welcome and thanks so much for tuning into our episode seven of How to Win a Campaign. In our previous episode, if you didn't catch that one, we covered uh, how to hire a campaign manager and how to make sure that they are a good fit for you as a candidate. We also covered some knowledge around developing a hiring process and what that looks like, developing an onboarding process and how to make sure that you're keeping your team energized throughout the entire campaign. So if you haven't taken a listen, feel free to go back and listen to that episode.
Joe Fuld (00:52):
So today we're talking about one of my favorite topics, Martín I'm sure it's one of yours too, which is door to door. Door to door to me is the most important thing a candidate can be doing, especially in a small race. I think the decision to knock on doors, to me, I always have candidates come up to me and say, Hey Joe, when should I start knocking on doors? And my answer is right now you should be knocking on doors as early as you possibly can. Getting a script down, making sure that you really have your message and then go out there, knock on doors and understand that. It to me is the great equalizer in campaigns. It is a barrier breaker. Martine and I have worked on trained people from all sorts of different communities and what I find, especially having done training in the LGBT community for a long time, is that an openly gay or lesbian, bisexual, transgender candidate knocks on your door, it transforms them from just being seen as the LGBT candidate to the person who is going to fix the pothole in front of their house. The person who's going to cut their taxes, the person who is going to work on the education system. It's having that relationship and breaking that barrier of who you are perceived as as a candidate to who you actually are and what you're going to do for the person who is in that house living in this community.
Martín Diego Garcia (02:26):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as folks are getting inundated, right, with all of these different types of communication, whether it's through their TV, through the radio, through your cell phone, through your computer, right? Nothing beats the one on one conversation. Nothing beats that personal interaction that you can have with another person, particularly the voter, right? So they can sort of have a back and forth with you on what is top of mind for them, what are the questions they have for you about being their next city council person, in state legislature. Right? And so that is critically important as you're thinking about running your campaign. And as Joe said, the more time you have to do it, the more folks that you're going to be able to talk to. And very often we hear from candidates who start doing door knocking, that many of the folks who answered the door have never had another candidate knock on their door before and most of them get that vote just because this is the first person who's ever come to their door to ask them what they actually think. It's very simple and it's very easy and it's still one of the best ways in which you as a candidate can spend your time talking to voters.
Joe Fuld (03:27):
Yeah, I mean I find it to be the most persuasive medium by far. I mean you'll meet people and you might disagree with them, but you actually disagreed with them in person. They actually know where you stand. It doesn't mean you have to go to their door and argue with them. It means you can find common ground at the door. You might not agree on guns, but you might very well agree on schools. You might agree on the need for a transportation system in your community. There are so many things you can find that common ground.
Martín Diego Garcia (04:00):
Yeah, and I mean as you're thinking about building out your canvassing program, it's going to look different depending on where you're running. Right? If you were in a very rural area, right? You may be canvassing and not necessarily walking door to door but driving door to door, right? Whereas if you're running in a very urban area where like I am in New York, there are a ton of high rise buildings that if you can get into that building that is a hundred voters right in one little spot and it just takes you from like floor, from floor to floor to floor, knocking a bunch of doors. But you have to really be thinking about what is it, what does a canvassing program look like for you and your district in order to run an effective one.
Joe Fuld (04:34):
Right? I mean if you're in an urban area, like as Martín said, and you're doing apartment buildings, you're going to want to make sure that you have, you know, captains, people you've recruited in those apartment buildings to get you in, to be able to walk you through the doors and do that. And in a rural area, you're going to be sending people out in pairs. One person driving in the car, another person getting out and going and having conversations. And so really thinking about what the model is, how many people can actually knock on how many doors in a day and doing what we call that field math to really be able to understand how many volunteers you're going to need. When are you going to need them by? Is it just going to be the candidate? Is a candidate one volunteer? Is it more than that? If it's a big area, do you need to do paid canvassing? Those are all the questions you have to ask and so really developing a canvassing plan, really understanding what your message is and developing a script. Starting with that script to have that message down. All those things are super, super important when it comes to door knocking.
Martín Diego Garcia (05:37):
And you as the candidate are likely not going to be able to do this by yourself. And then the one piece of advice that I will give you is if you have volunteers coming in or other folks coming in to do the canvassing for you, train them, train them on how to do it, have them do some role play so that by the time they do get to the actual door and are actually talking to voters on your behalf, they feel comfortable enough to answer those questions, have a good conversation and leave a good impression on those voters that they are talking to on your behalf. So make sure you actually spend the time on the front end to be training your volunteers on how to be good canvassers.
Joe Fuld (06:10):
Carmen goes into a lot more detail about what you need to know about canvassing and it was a really exciting interview. Carmen Berkley is the chief strategy officer of Dancing Hearts Consulting and has done a ton of canvassing. I can't wait Martín for you to hear this interview.
(Music)
Joe Fuld (06:29):
Welcome back to the show. So this week we have Carmen Berkley. She's awesome and you're about to find out why. She is a political strategist, entrepreneur radio host and DJ who has devoted her career to helping improve the lives of communities of color and women. Through who work as the chief strategy officer at Dancing Hearts Consulting as a women's radio host at the show Sophie's Parlor of WPFW 89.3 FM here in DC. Her prior experience includes serving as present United States Student Association, the NAACP field director, managing director of Planned Parenthood Action Fund and as a cofounder of the social impact group, Can't Stop, Won't Stop Consulting. And as the board chair of Repower, that's a lot.
Carmen Berkley (07:20):
It is a lot.
Joe Fuld (07:23):
Carmen, welcome to the show.
Carmen Berkley (07:24):
Thank you for having me.
Joe Fuld (07:26):
All right. Well this week we're talking about door to door and you know we have a lot of guests on the show who have started in lots of different ways in working in politics. So the first thing I want to ask is how'd you get into campaigns?
Carmen Berkley (07:41):
Well, when I was in college at the University of Pittsburgh, an organization called the United States Student Association found me. I have to say they found me and I started to get involved in student activism and student organizing at the time. We were trying to make sure that student fees were frozen in the state of Pennsylvania. And so USAA taught me how to organize and it was an amazing experience. They, you know, we, we ran a campaign, I learned every single type of tactic from how to phone bank, how to canvass, how to do class wraps. And then we started to transition into electoral campaigns, which is its own beast and conversation. But that was really my entry way into doing campaign work.
Joe Fuld (08:26):
So tell me what door to door campaigning is to you and why it's so important.
Carmen Berkley (08:33):
Well for me, door to door canvassing, that is the tried and true way that we have conversations with our people. I mean I'm 34 so I love a Twitter, I love a Facebook, I use all of it. But I have to admit, especially now that I work from home, when someone knocks on my door, it means something. It means that someone is actually taking the opportunity to have a real face to face conversation. And as an organizer, it's the way in which we provide accurate information to folks that otherwise might be getting inaccurate information from media, from social media. And so at least, you know, like in my neighborhood when I live, I live in Hyattsville, Maryland. Now when someone is knocking on my door for a political purpose, I know one that they know something about me as a voter. So they know that I am an active voter. They want for me to come out. They probably understand something about my family or my income. I think the second thing is door knocking provides us with an opportunity to have a real deep conversation. I mean, you can have a shallow one, you could just throw a a door hanger on the door and run away. Or you could say, Hey, I'm deeply invested in this environmental issue and actually want to talk to you about it because if you participate in this next election or this next activity, we actually could make a difference in our communities.
Joe Fuld (10:00):
Yeah. So you talked about like two like three different sort of versions of door to door there that I want to unpack a little bit. You talked about sort of a deep canvas, which is a longer conversation and that could be, you know, five to 10 minutes. You talked about sort of a shorter conversation, which could be one to five minutes and then you talked about something that was almost like a lit drop. What you like about them? I mean I'll, I'll tell you that I'm biased and I'm really kind of anti lit drop, but tell me about that. Right. I want to be honest with that. Right. Talk to me about certainly the other two tactics, sort of that mid, you know, one minute to five minute conversation versus a longer deep canvas.
Carmen Berkley (10:42):
I would say with deep canvassing. So in the last census I worked in Mexico, Missouri where I am not from,
Joe Fuld (10:51):
I have, I have been there, but go on. Yeah.
Carmen Berkley (10:54):
Then you understand it is rural and those folks needed to have someone knock on their door and talk to them about the census. They, they weren't sure about the government. They didn't really understand what the census was. And let's face it in 2010 technology was way different. And so at least when we were doing that deep canvassing that was about spending, like you said, five to 10 minutes on a door, having a real conversation, understanding people's self-interests, understanding who's actually inside of the household and trying to motivate someone to really take action or to move them. Because a number of the people that I had to talk to were folks that were lower income folks that generally did not participate. And we wanted to get the hard to count folks to understand, Hey, if you actually follow the census, you're bringing thousands of dollars back into your community. And when you're talking to someone and you're talking dollars and cents, that's something that they can understand. But if you just dropped a piece of literature at their door, they're not going to fully understand what the census means. And so they might've missed the opportunity. But then you know, you've got, you've got this middle ground that we also talked about, which is let's just say you're working for a presidential campaign or a city council campaign and we are trying to understand who's in the community and can we actually interact with them. And those are generally like one to two maybe three minute conversations. So in 2017 I got dropped into Northern Virginia to help with the gubernatorial election for Northam and Fairfax and those conversations on the door, those were like two to three minute conversations. Hey I'm Carmen, I'm coming to make sure that you, you vote, I see that you haven't, but you are a registered voter. And for some people that's all they needed was like a reminder to vote. But for some people they wanted to engage in a conversation. And for me, I try to always make time to engage because yes you can be on the door really quickly, you can move fast. But if we're trying to make impact then you have to invest the time. And I must say on that day it was raining as hard as it could possibly rain. And so everybody was home. And so that was a very successful canvass for me.
Joe Fuld (13:09):
Talk to me a little bit about how a campaign, let's say you're running for city council or a county race and you are trying to determine whether door-knocking makes sense for the size of your campaign. Where do you start?
Carmen Berkley (13:25):
Depending on how much time you have and how many volunteers you have, you'd want to make a decision on, do I want to knock on doors of people that vote a certain way? Am I looking to, for people who are like undecided independent voters? Am I looking for people who are, you know, let's just say like democratic voters that vote in every single election. But usually with elections, what we're looking for is the margin between who voted in the last election and what it's going to take for us to win. So for me, that's my sweet spot. I'm always looking for who are those extra people that if we hit them a couple of times, they're actually going to sway our way. So that's, that's like one way of approaching it. I think that there is a supplemental way to approaching this that is outside of the sophisticated data systems we have and that way is we know our own community and sometimes we need to knock on knock on apartment building doors, knock on doors of young people, knock on doors of older people that might not be in some of those data systems.
Joe Fuld (14:31):
So talk to me then about the initial setup for a campaign's door to door to door effort. Right. How do you like think through that? What is, what should the campaigns be thinking about where like six months out from a nonpartisan election, it's winter and I'm ready to go door to door. What do I do?
Carmen Berkley (14:54):
Okay. I think the first thing we've got to do is we've got to have a good script. Now having a good script is important because depending on where we're going, depends on what we're going to say, right? And of course when you get to the door, you can't just stick totally to the script, but you do have to understand what are the values of the person that you're working for? What are we ultimately trying to win? And we have to know what our ask is going to be and it needs to be really clear. And for me, sometimes there's the ask and sometimes there's that second ask to make sure that even if somebody is like on the cusp but they're a little bit unsure, is there another thing we could be asking them to do? So for an example, we could say, okay, you know, are you interested in voting for candidate X? You know, maybe the answer is I'm not sure yet. I'm not sure if I want to vote. Okay, but can you at least pledge to vote? And you know, having a script that both meets the community that you're in and helps you be able to articulate what the values are will make you really strong. I think the second thing that I would say is you got to map your turf, which we just talked about. So we have to understand like how far out are we going? If I'm going with a team, okay, you're going to take this street, you're going to take this street, you're going to take this street and you got to knock every door. And there are some doors that you know, especially if you're using a lot of the technology where you're like, well, I don't know if I should be over here. This looks a little weird. This looks a little sketchy. And you know, maybe if something looks sketchy, you actually shouldn't be knocking on that door, but you just never know what you are going to find behind the door. And it's so important that you are tracking exactly what you're doing. So if you go to 3700 and there's three people that live in that household and you're able to get all the data that you need, take five minutes and write that stuff, maybe not five minutes, take a minute and write that stuff down because that's going to be invaluable to the campaign. I think the other thing is take a minute, right? So like sometimes you ring the doorbell and you're like, Oh, nobody's home and then you run away. For me, I have one of those houses where I have like a million doors. If the doorbell rings and I'm upstairs, it's going to take me a minute to get downstairs. So I would also say, you know, the first couple of doors, especially if you're new to this, you might feel apprehensive cause you're like, Oh these people are going to come to the door. I'm going to run away. There's a dog barking. But try to be cool, try to be calm and if they open the door, try to stick as much to your script as possible because there's a flow to how you move. And then I guess the final thing is you know, you've got to bring your full self to this. So for me, like I'm a naturally kind of happy, genuine person and that usually comes through. I do get a little bit nervous sometimes when I'm knocking on someone's door that I don't know. But after I get through like the first three, it usually gets a little bit easier cause if someone's willing to open the door, they're usually willing to engage in a little bit of a conversation. Even if the conversation is, I have something else to do. But I would say smiling, being kind and coming in with your full self allows it really like it de-guards, people that are feeling like, why is this person knocking on my door?
Joe Fuld (18:16):
Talk to me about the importance of the candidate themselves going door to door. And then when a candidate's not going door to door volunteers and then the next tier of that, paid canvass. So those three sort of buckets.
Carmen Berkley (18:30):
Okay. When my really good friend Gregory Cendana, he ran for office in Washington D.C. I wouldn't necessarily say what's for office. It was to become like a delegate to the DNC.
Joe Fuld (18:42):
And I know Greg and he's awesome.
Carmen Berkley (18:43):
He's awesome. Yeah. Okay. So the person that he was running against was Marion Barry. So for those folks that don't know who Marion Barry is, he's the, he's gone past, but he's the mayor for life in Washington D.C. So for Greg Cendana to run a campaign against Marion Barry, we decided in our strategy that he was going to have to knock on a lot of doors because Marion Barry has name recognition and you know, I love Greg, but Greg doesn't have the same name recognition. But having Greg go out and actually talk to his neighbors, you know like literally his neighbors in the apartment building that he lived in and having deep conversations with them, it made all the difference. And he actually, he actually got more votes than Marion Barry and became known as the person who meet, who beat Marion Barry in an election, which is a huge situation here in Washington DC. So I know that's a small example, but sometimes I feel like it, you know, it's the people who are around you, they want to hear from you. And oftentimes when we're voting in non presidential or gubernatorial elections, we're looking for that name recognition. When I'm looking to vote for my state legislator, if somebody came and knocked on my door, I would definitely remember that over someone that didn't. So I would say investing that time as a candidate is extremely important. Of course you can't knock on every door, right? And so you do have to have a good volunteer base, which is why having the script is important because if you are a candidate and you really want to knock on all these doors, but you know that you can not do all of that, you want to make sure that your canvassers are representing you well because what you wouldn't want to happen is somebody is going out there, knocking on doors under your good name and they're misrepresenting you. But I think that having a volunteer canvas, it's fun. It teaches people a ton of skills. It teaches public speaking, it teaches people politics, it teaches you about data and how data analytics actually works. And it allows for canvassers to actually get the experience that they need. And also the, the, the data that they need to see, are people in our community actually feeling this candidate? I do think that there are some costs that are associated with the volunteer canvasses. Not like it's just totally, you know, free. But what you can do with a volunteer canvases, you want to make sure people have all the information that they need. They have all the turf that they need. At least you could give them some pizza and a clipboard and a pen bare minimum iPad would be nice too. But I believe in the volunteer canvas because to me, if somebody is able to come out and volunteer for you for an hour or three hours, that means they really care about your campaign and they are dedicated. You could go the paid route. So you know paid canvass. What that means is you're working with a company or you're working with an organization and they have got an operation that is able to work in a very sophisticated way to go out and do something similar to what the volunteer canvassers are doing, but they're doing it on a grand scale. On a massive level. I think the upside to the paid canvas is these are folks that are like, they're professional canvassers. They know what they're doing, they know how to get in, they know how to have a really smart strategic conversation. You know, I think the parts of the paid canvas that maybe sometimes are hard, although this is not totally a criticism is the relationship to the issue or the candidate. It might be a little bit different because they do this professionally. So I would say depending on your resources, depending on how many people you're trying to actually reach in a certain amount of time. Maybe, you know, a lot of times people do a mixture of a paid canvass and a volunteer canvas. But I would say as a candidate you need to take your booty outside. Even if you are running for president United States like look, right? I mean this is banking, but like look like a lot of candidates will directly call some of their smaller donors. People that are just giving $10, $20 to say thank you. Could you imagine if your presidential candidate knocked on your door? I'm getting everybody to vote for you.
Joe Fuld (22:57):
What are your favorite ways to track? Like the responses? Can you give us some, like whether that's technology or with a clipboard, what do you recommend?
Carmen Berkley (23:06):
Well, of course using technology is my preferred method, so I think that what's kind of cool when you work with organizations that have a little bit of resource is because of how the like the voter activation network works and how like, you know, just all the technology, you've got these iPads that basically you can say, okay, I went to Joe's door. You know, Joe, does he live here? Yes. Like does he vote a certain way? Yes. Do we think he's going to vote? Yes. I like that because it's easy and we can get it done. The part about having the clipboard with the piece of paper that is challenging is having to go back and do a lot of the data input that still needs to happen. When I basically had to do that back in the two thousands because that was the only way that you did the work because you had an Excel spreadsheet, you ticked off what was happening on the Excel spreadsheet and then you had to go back and input all that stuff. There's so much room for error when you are doing it in the paper way. And I would say, okay, so perhaps you don't have the resources to be working with some of these big data networks. You could still use Google sheets and like Google drive or like Google forms. I mean I'm not trying to, you know, promote Google here, but there you could use survey monkey. There are a number of different ways to be able to collect the same data and information without writing everything down and you know, having a lot of room for error. So that is my preferred method. I must admit. If there's a, there's a a data system, let me tink my things into my iPad and then be done and move on.
Joe Fuld (24:42):
Again, like I mean ones that we have used and we recommend VoteBuilder, Grassroots Unwired, right? NGP VAN Smart VAN. Like there's a lot out there. Take a look. We'll put some in the show notes. Well Carmen Berkley, thank you so much for your time for being on the show and for all you do. We really appreciate it.
Carmen Berkley (25:02):
No problem. Thank you and congratulations and good luck!
(Music)
Joe Fuld (25:11):
And we're back. Thanks so much to Carmen Berkley for making the time to talk to us about field. If you want to hear the full interview, check out the feed. We can't emphasize enough how important canvassing is. It's a chance for real face to face conversations with your community and real engagement.
Martín Diego Garcia (25:31):
Right? You have to remember from knocking doors helps you really break down those barriers in a way that digital ads, text messaging, phone calls, even video, right? Can't do because it's an in person sort of one-on-one, two way conversation you allowed to have with your voters. So if you're running for office, you really need to make sure that you invest the time to go out and really meet the people within your community, the people who you are going to be serving in elective office and canvassing is one of the best ways for you to do that really because it ups your name recognition and makes real connection with voters. Very often we hear in the training space that when candidates spend the time to go knock on doors, very often they hear from the voter, you're the first candidate who's ever done this. You're the first elected official I've ever spoken to and, and really make a personal connection with those folks because very often campaigns don't do this type of work.
Joe Fuld (26:20):
Yeah, I mean Martín as a candidate, right? We want to make sure then, we tell our clients this all the time that you need to be involved in your campaigns door knocking as much as possible and you have to know that in most cases you're not going to be able to personally knock on every single door. That's just not possible, but having volunteers, making sure you have a real script that you've really trained and that they understand your voice and why you're running and what your story is. Those are all really important things.
Martín Diego Garcia (26:51):
Yeah. The training piece is important, right? When you bring folks into your campaign office and you're sending them out, you really want to make sure that they are going to be representing the campaign and therefore you want to take that time, whether it's 20 minutes to a half an hour to really sit down with them, read through the script, make sure they understand it, make sure that they also understand that it's okay to say, I don't know, and I'll find out versus making up an answer on the spot because they think they have to know everything.
Joe Fuld (27:15):
Yeah. You want to make sure that you've done training in a way that people aren't going door to door and feel like a robot. You want to make sure that they're not just reading off a piece of paper, but that they're good messengers, that they're really understanding what the message and story of the campaign is. One of the things that's so important about door knocking is it's not lit dropping. The most important thing is not handing them a piece of paper, it's having a conversation. So you want to make sure that you have a real conversation and you have a clear ask at the end of that conversation to get input, engagement and something that you, your volunteer or you as a candidate can follow up with a voter at the end of the conversation.
Martín Diego Garcia (28:01):
Right? And another important thing that Carmen touched on, right, was how to track all this information that you're getting from canvassing. And you're getting a ton of data from the conversations that you and your canvassers are having at the door. So you really want to have a clear system for keeping track of everything that you're learning from your voters and your constituents at the door, right? So, for example, if you are going knock on Maria Martinez's door on October 3rd and you get her to pledge for your to vote for you, you want to make sure that that gets tracked so that later on when you're turning out the vote at the end of the campaign, you go back to her to make sure that she goes to vote. There are a ton of helpful and affordable tools out there for you to use in order to track this information from miniVAN to Grassroots Unwired, Ecanvasser, 10 More Votes, and the list goes on. But really no matter what system you're using, you just want to make sure you have a system so that you're tracking all this information and your campaign gets the most out of the data you're collecting when you're canvassing.
Joe Fuld (28:58):
Martín, do you have a favorite canvassing story?
Martín Diego Garcia (29:01):
I mean, I have done a good bit of canvassing in my day and I think we all have sort of the like getting bit by a dog story. It's only happened to me once, but I was in Brentwood outside of Nashville, in Tennessee and there aren't a lot of fences around people's houses there and I wasn't paying attention and a dog got me got me right in the ankle, goes a little dog. So I didn't. It didn't break the skin, but it was sort of stuck to my, the heel of my pant there for a minute before I could get away and scurry off.
Joe Fuld (29:31):
Yeah, I mean I have to say Martín, I too have been bitten by a dog in Tennessee. So there is a lot of like, I mean I guess it's like be careful when you're canvassing in Tennessee, you know, again, what I want to say is canvassing is changing, right? With COVID-19 and other natural disasters, people are going to think about other ways to do that. You can check out about our campaigning in natural disasters episode as well. So that's also in the feed here. But that's a wrap for this episode. Thanks again for listening. If you've got questions about the world of field in-person, virtual or otherwise, don't hesitate to reach out using the email and social media handles in the description.
Martín Diego Garcia (30:12):
And coming up on our next episode eight, we'll be teaching you all about fundraising and how to really raise those critical resources to have a successful campaign. Our guest, Amy Kershner, who does this for a living, she's a fundraising expert, will be joining us and teaching us all the tips and tricks she has on how to raise money. But until next time, this is Martín Diego Garcia
Joe Fuld (30:31):
And Joe Fuld breaking down how to win a campaign. How to Win a campaign is Joe Fuld, Martín Diego Garcia, Hope Rohrbach, Daniel Lam, Heidi Job, and Elena Veatch. Music by Mike Pinto. Sound editing by Junto Media. Special thanks to the team at The Campaign Workshop. Please review, like, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
(Outro Music)