Grassroots organizing has become the hottest trend in progressive politics and advocacy in the last few years. But, if you don’t coordinate your grasstops efforts with your grassroots, you’re missing out. Joe and Martín will teach you how to double your effectiveness by combining grassroots and grasstops organizing, and go over some key points on leveraging your organization’s membership and resources. This week’s guest is Christopher Coes, VP of Land Use and Development at Smart Growth America, who will share his time-tested methods on combining grassroots and grasstops tactics.
Grassroots and grasstops advocacy might sound like opposites, but they’re really more like complements. Doing grassroots organizing the right way can help set you up for success in influencing grasstops advocates. In this episode, Joe and Martín explain this symbiotic relationship and how to leverage your organization’s membership to execute a coordinated grassroots-grasstops campaign. Joe interviews Smart Growth America’s VP of Land Use and Development Christopher Coes, who divulges some of his secrets to effective grassroots-grasstops integration.
Resources
Grassroots vs. Grasstops Advocacy
How to Be an Awesome Grassroots Organizer
Grassroots Strategies: Relationships Matter
Connect with us!
If you have campaign questions or want to learn more, reach out to us using the contact information below.
Twitter: @cmpwrkshp
Instagram: @TheCampaignWorkshop
Email: marketing@thecampaignworkshop.com
Joe Fuld
Twitter: @joefuld
Instagram: @joefuld
Martín Diego Garcia
Twitter: @gmartindiego
Instagram: @gmartindiego
Presented by The Campaign Workshop
(Intro Music)
Joe Fuld (00:07):
Hey folks, you're listening to How to Win an Advocacy Campaign, where you'll get an insider's perspective that teaches you not only how to fight for what you believe in, but how to win. I'm Joe Fuld.
Martín Diego Garcia (00:20):
And I'm Martín Diego Garcia, and you can find us @CMPWRKSHP on Twitter or @thecampaignworkshop on Instagram. Welcome, and thanks for listening to episode four of How to Win an Advocacy Campaign. So in our last episode, if you missed it, we talked about messaging for advocacy with Joe's old boss, Rich Neimand, who does a great impression of Joe. But he talked a little bit about-
Joe Fuld (00:43):
I do a great impression of Rich too, but we'll leave that for a different show. It's a show called impressions of our old bosses, right?
Martín Diego Garcia (00:52):
So Rich touched on how to get buy-in, right, and who you need to bring in, in order to all be on the same page when it comes to your messaging, how to begin setting up for your messaging and how to actually connect your messaging to your overarching goals in order to achieve the mission that your organization was set out to it.
Joe Fuld (01:09):
Yeah. So today we're talking about grassroots and grasstops advocacy and what it takes to plan and run an effective grassroots and grasstops advocacy program, no matter your budget.
Martín Diego Garcia (01:21):
Yeah. And so, as we think about grassroots advocacy and grass tops advocacy, I want to do a little definitions here for both. So we're all on the same page. When we talk about grassroots advocacy, we're really talking about individual community members, right? Everyday folks who are coming together in support, or to take action on some cause or issue, right? So it is you, your family, your neighbors, your friends, right, who are going out into the world and together backing a cause or, or doing an action in favor or an, or an opposition to a particular cause. Right? When we talk about grass tops, advocacy, we're talking about folks who are probably already doing this type of work, right? These may be elected officials. They may be organizations or heads of organizations. They have some already type of influence or already have a relationships with decision makers that you may be targeting in your advocacy work. So grassroots, everyday people, individuals working as a collective to take action, grass tops, probably folks who already have some level of influence in the advocacy space on your cause or issue who, where you are also trying to mobilize into action. Joe, can you talk to us a little bit about what do you think constitutes a good grass roots advocacy program?
Joe Fuld (02:37):
Well, when I like to think of grassroots, I like to think about real quantifiable actions. What are ways in which you could count and understand the ways in which people have engaged in a program to make a difference in their community? And often, like when I talk about this and teach on this, I talk about this as far as like local grassroots issues. Like the idea of, if you're trying to get a four way stop sign put at your corner, what would be a quantifiable action that you would take? Well, many places you have to get the signatures of your neighbors to make that four way stop happen. So you would go around and get them to sign and sign a petition that says, I want this four way stop. If it's a bigger issue in your community, you should be doing the same thing, having a petition, getting names, getting neighbors and other community members on board and making that be quantifiable. If you have 10 people on your committee, it's like, okay, we're each going to get another 10 people to show up to the next zoom meeting so that we now have a hundred people. So it's really thinking about the quantifiable action you want to find and recruit people where you need them. So it's not just about having a group of people in one part of town, it's having groups of people all over town or in specific districts of the city council people or legislators that you need them. So where people are matters, who they are matters. You know, you want to really think about who these people are connected to, Martín you love to talk about power mapping. So the idea of like power mapping, who the final legislator that you need to make this appeal to and who people are that are connected to them, you know, in some way also can matter. And that starts to get into the grass tops a little bit, but grass roots is just this broad array of people that you're able to connect with through quantifiable action.
Martín Diego Garcia (04:45):
Definitely. And, and there are a lot of tools and tactics, whether it's power mapping, one-on-one conversations, right? Ladders of engagement that we have accessible on our blog that talk a little bit more about what those pieces are. But the ultimate thing about grassroots is relationships, right? Relationships are key to all of this. And so in the grassroots space, literally anybody you meet right from a, from a PTA meeting to the grocery store, right, could be a potential grassroots advocate and could join your cause. So you always want to be ready. As you're thinking about recruiting people, particularly in the targeted areas in which you need them.
Joe Fuld (05:23):
Yeah. And that transition from a grassroots to a grass tops person is the strength of that relationship. So it might be that through your door to door canvassing, right? You're trying to get that four way stop. I'll keep going with this analogy. It just so happens that the person four doors down for you works for the city department of transportation. Now you have a grass tops person that may be able to help you work through this system. Another neighbor happens to know your city council person, who's the person who's to be working on this issue. Those folks are grasstops contacts. And so thinking about how your grassroots really builds your grasstops, right? It's like your, you know, your Reese's peanut butter cup, it's your chocolate and your peanut butter, right. It's together. It is really important that you're like using the grassroots to build the grass tops. And then frankly, often what I like to do is empower my grassroots to like, even if they don't have a relationship with their legislator, who says they can't, right? Picking up the phone and saying, Hey, I'm a teacher in the area. You know, I'd really love to get on a Zoom call with you or have a socially distant cup of coffee with you about this education issue that I'm dealing with. And most of the time legislators will say yes, if you ask.
Martín Diego Garcia (06:47):
Definitely as folks are considering whether to pursue a grass top strategy versus a grassroots strategy or both, can you talk a little bit about examples of campaigns or efforts in which one makes sense over the other versus using both?
Joe Fuld (07:02):
Yeah. I mean, part of it becomes a resource question. Really. I, I would argue, ideally you want to do both, right. Again, your grassroots likely becomes your grass tops that you want to try, especially when you're running legislative advocacy campaigns or city council, advocacy campaigns, or even congressional like advocacy campaigns. You want to really be thinking about how to build a public facing campaign around an issue. I think that matters more these days than ever before, because there are so many different issues that legislators have to vie for. You want to show public pressure to get you higher up on the list to make people make a decision on something quickly. So that's why grassroots comes into play. Grasstops might be something that where the issue is so super wonky. If it's a change in a specific element of a tax code that deals with internet businesses, it's not likely that you're going to have a ton of grassroots support, maybe right. You might, but it might be that it is more grasstops to start, and you can get specific people in specific districts who care about this issue more to engage.
Martín Diego Garcia (08:18):
Yeah. It's definitely the inside-outside game of how do you make sure that on the inside, whether it's actual legislators or electeds and their staff, right? Are on board with you to champion your champion your issue from the inside, but you're also applying, right, like public opinion and public pressure from the outside so that these legislators know that the public is with them on this particular issue or this cause. And so, Joe, as you, as organizations and folks are thinking about how to choose their targets for both grassroots and grasstops, what should they be thinking about?
Joe Fuld (08:49):
Well, like with any plan you want to start with your goal. So really thinking about what is legislative process that let's say it's a piece of legislation that you're trying to move. What's the process that it's going to go through? It's likely to go through a committee vote process first, right? So who are the legislators on that committee that are going to be making the key assignments? You want to make sure you've organized people in their legislative districts. So whether that's grass, tops, people that know those specific legislators or grassroots, a broader appeal of people in those specific legislative districts, you probably want to first start with the committee that this piece of legislation goes to. And it might be that there are eight members on the committee, three of which you already have three of which, you know, you're not going to get. And two of which are really the deciders. So you're going to spend more time on the two and then the three base members to make sure you have the five votes. You need to get this out of committee. So that would be how I would start then as this potentially goes to a floor vote, you're having a more and larger public facing campaign that gets other legislators involved. But part of this is that legislative campaigns in general are like cheaper than doing a statewide ballot measure because you're talking to a much more limited group of people to pass a piece of legislation versus bringing it to the general public.
Martín Diego Garcia (10:17):
Definitely. And this is where that tool power mapping comes in super handy. It's a, it's a tool that allows you to visually see, right? Sort of where are folks in terms of support or opposition to you, right. As Joe mentioned, you have three that are with you three that are against you. And two, sort of who, who you potentially may be able to persuade to your side. And, and based on that you want as much information about those two legislators as possible, right? Like who are their donors? What relationships do they have? Who have they been endorsed by, right? Where do they live? Right. And how do you get to go to the grassroots place? Right? How do you get constituencies from those particular groups and organizations to lobby those folks on your behalf?
Joe Fuld (10:56):
Right. And it goes even deeper, right? Like where do they go to church? Where do they put their dry cleaning in? What bakery do they go to, where do they get their cup of coffee, all of those things. And knowing that, so that, I mean, we have moved pieces of legislation because someone at their local coffee shop says, Hey, I care about this. And this is important. So doing that kind of organizing can really make a difference.
Martín Diego Garcia (11:20):
Absolutely and know that this advocacy work and these targetings in terms of grassroots and grasstops, we are using legislative campaigns as the example here. But these could be used for boards and commissions. They can be used for corporate, corporations, right? So wherever there is a deciding decision-maker at a decision table, right? You can utilize these strategies, these tools, these tactics, to help move those folks to take the action you are hoping they take. The example of a legislation and voting is just a very clear black and white example of they're going to vote for you, or they're going to vote with you, or they're going to vote against you.
Joe Fuld (11:54):
But boards and commissions appointed elected officials, corporations. Those are all great places and important to utilize these tools as well as you said, Martín , for sure.
Martín Diego Garcia (12:04):
Really excited to hear from Christopher Coes on what it actually takes to create a good grassroots grasstops program. And Joe is going to be doing a great interview with him coming up here in a minute. We'll be right back.
(Music)
Joe Fuld (12:30):
Welcome back this week, we're joined by Christopher Coes, the Vice Prsident of land use and development of Smart Growth America, an organization that empowers communities with technical assistance, advocacy, and thought leadership to create livable spaces, healthy people, and share prosperity. Christopher has led Smart Growth America's national regional public policy and advocacy efforts to tackle the smart growth real estate. Industry's most pressing challenges. Prior to joining Smart Growth America. Christopher was a government affairs and campaigns consultant at M+R strategies, deputy director and senior campaign advisor at Transportation for America and a research analyst at the DCCC. Christopher, welcome to the show.
Christopher Coes (13:11):
Thank you for having me.
Joe Fuld (13:12):
It's our pleasure. I mean, we've been lucky enough to work with Christopher on our advocacy campaign training work, and Christopher really talked to our students about the need for grass tops and grassroots advocacy. So give me just for folks that are thinking about a grasstops or grassroots campaign, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see, or the biggest barriers that you see to really launching that real grasstops or grassroots campaign?
Christopher Coes (13:44):
One of the misconceptions I think that's out there is around grassroots and grass tops. You know, traditionally when you think about grassroots, right, it's the regular Joe Schmo, Mary Jane, who's walking down the street, who's in a specific member of Congress or state legislature, or city council member's district, or boundary that you go have a direct conversation with to say, Hey, there's an issue that's important. Can you reach out to your member of Congress? And they said, sure, I'll may sign onto a letter or I'll respond to an email that'll send it directly. So that's generally grassroots. And grasstops, right, would be people would say, Hey, I do grassroots grasstops, advocacy. I'm only looking at the people who my member really care about, you know, the CEOs of business or the heads of environmental organization or the local church minister, right. Leaders in the community, people that the, the target, whether it's the legislature, a city council member or governor would naturally say yes I valued their opinion. And one of the things I've learned through my work both from the political campaign world in a consultant space, advising nonprofits, and now working on grassroots and grasstops advocacy, you have to do both. You need people who are on the ground, who have lived experience, because that's the only way you can demonstrate to a member of Congress that is constituents, who care about it. But at the same time, do you need experts in the field? Let's say, I want the head of the medical department talking about healthcare policy and talk about the intricacies of that. I think that's the misconception that you have to have one or the other. The most successful organizations and advocacy campaigns are those that integrate them.
Joe Fuld (15:31):
And so Christopher, just to follow up on that, how do you find those people?
Christopher Coes (15:36):
Oh, that is a great question. So let's start with grassroots. Grassroots in many ways could do, you can do a number of things. You could do a petition campaign where you have volunteers going door to door advocating. You can actually another way to do it. You could do sign on letters, right? Partnering with other crews that are aligned with you to say, Hey, your members may be interested in my issues in those places. That's one way of getting grassroots. Often times you see that, like I said, letter camp, uh letter campaigns knocking on doors, canvassing, phone banking you know, one of the natural ways we tell people if you're starting from the beginning, get the voter rolls, right? Because you begin to align your policy issues with how people might be voting or which party or primaries they are engaging in. So those are some examples of how to get to uh grassroots specifically. Um for grass tops, it's really fascinating because when I, when people ask me how to get grasstops, well, anyone could be a grasstops. The question is, who's your target? Does your target consider you a leader or someone who he or she values in terms of your information, your expertise or political influence? One of the examples I'll give, as in my role, I serve as executive director of a group called Locus. It is Latin for place. It's a network of social impact for developers and investors. And the premise of organizing them was that, you know, developers and investors generally deal with local issues. So they're always talking to your city council members, you know, they get blamed for funding, mayoral races, right? But transportation policy and healthcare issues are oftentimes federal. So developers don't normally who are doing this work on the local level, don't normally have an ask at the federal level besides like major tax credits, but every department does it, what we found which was the emphasis of framing Locus, was that sometimes that mayor, that city council member, he, or she becomes a member of Congress, becomes a Senator, sometimes becomes Chair of a tax committee. And you find out, now I had a situation in early on where one of my members build the condo where one of my developers built the condo where a very powerful Senator lived in. That's grasstops, right. Or the inverse, Oh, this person's child go to my school. And we're on the PT PTA board. Right. So the question really is identify your target and draw a circle of influence. Who's that person listening to who's their kitchen cabinet. And it may not be people who are in your space and you just gotta be open to engage in those spaces, to get them activated. I believe full-heartedly based on my lived experience that we can't solve some of the greatest existential challenges of our time, whether it's racial, injustice, climate change, our public health and economic prosperity, unless there's a partnership between citizens, their government and the private sector. And I've been trying my entire career to build that bridge. And what I find a lot in a lot of work I've done at Smart Growth America is creating tables for the private sector to be a part, to be advocates. And people would say, well, what you mean? Corporate advocacy is a thing. You know, sometimes you'll see, you know, Nike or some of these other brand sensitive companies say, Oh, we're black lives matter. Or we're pro-environment or we're pro climate change. Right? So I think really getting the private sector realize that they could be corporate advocates as well. And I think that's where a lot of the synergies and the work that smarter for America and the movement has been really successful at. And, you know, the last misconception that I would put on the table that I see a lot, people forget that it's a numbers game sometimes, right? You go to Capitol Hill and you know, people get caught up in the theatrics of it, all they say, Oh, the Democrats they're over here, Republicans they're over there and they'll never be for my issue. And I'll tell you one of the things that the lessons you've learned in politics, particularly from the political campaign side, you don't care about where you are in the spectrum. You want to know, can you get 50 plus one on election day or when the vote comes. Cause that end of the day, this is all about a conversation. Can you get your policy issue across the finish line? I know many, many Senate Republicans who support smart growth. They'll never said in front of a camera, but behind closed doors, they will say, I'm totally fine with that policy because you know what? I had someone from the local chamber or for my community who told me it's a good thing. And at the end of the day, knowing that key thing is that, okay, we don't have to attack him, but we'll give him everything he needs behind the scenes, so he could be most effective. And I think at that point, that's why people call me the general at my organization. It was like, Oh, I'm not worried about the battle. I'm trying to win a war. So that's, those are some of my, I think misconceptions or things that the non-profits and those who are in advocacy campaign space tend to miss.
Joe Fuld (20:59):
So it used to be to kind of get that done or get a vote to happen that you would just hire a lobbyist. The lobbyist would talk to the elected officials. There wouldn't be this sort of public facing public outreach. Tell us why that change has happened and why that change is important.
Christopher Coes (21:18):
Listen one of the things that has happened one, the polarization of our country has definitely taken the air out of the trade association model, right? Get someone who claims, you know, who's representing and go and lobby and go and meet with a member. Because if, as a, as someone who used to work for a congressional staffer at the intern, one of the things you realize is that, okay, a lobbyist will come in, even at an environmentalist or a pro-housing advocate you name your issue. They'll come in and say, hi, I'm with organization X. Here's the policy issue that we're talking about. We want you to support it. And by the way, we represent these folks, okay. And maybe I'll go and do a campaign contribution. One of the biggest challenges now in this more polarized environment we're in, I go back to the member. I said, yes, this group came in and the member's going to ask you one the most important and basic question. So what did our folks back home think? Sometimes lobbyists don't a lot of lobbyists just don't bring that information. Well, why should I care? Why what's the impact on my district? I know why your industry care, and then one of the things I think this is where grassroots and grasstops is so critical and align that with general government affairs lobbying work, is that being able to tell the story, connect the policy, cause sometimes DC gets caught in, or even state capitals, even at the local and local level, elected officials get caught in the policy, but don't see the person and to be most effective, to change public policy from an advocacy campaign standpoint, you had to connect the thing that you're advocating for to that individual.
Joe Fuld (22:55):
So you talked about a few different things in that answer that I want to unpack a little bit. Part of what you talked about was sort of coalition partners, getting people from the district to engage with the legislator. Talk to us a little bit about how you think about those audiences and how you build that sort of grassroots and grass tops coalition. So it embodies the right people that will frankly move the legislators.
Christopher Coes (23:22):
Yeah. as I said before, count the numbers, right? 50 plus one, whatever your vote count is. And that can vary depending on what level of government that you're going to look at then after you've done that, ask yourself, okay, who is for me? Okay, that's your bloc. That's based on their voting record, based on the comments and the like, and now that made me, gave me soft touch with them, who are your persuadables, who are in the middle. Now that's going to be an interesting situation. And who's opposed to you. That's an interesting situation because you should do an analysis, uh power mapping, find out who, where, what they've done and begin to systematically create a process of engaging them. For example, one of the things that we learned when I was at Transportation for America early on, was that we had a number of Republicans who were not pro environmentalist. No there weren't pro public transportation, no. But increasingly because healthcare was a big issue during the 2008 during the 2008 campaign, which then 2009 and 2010, we found that a lot of opponents were totally about healthcare. Well, turns out we started realizing their wives or their, some of their shared colleagues, people they went to school with were heads of health departments in their community, or they had relationships with them. So we actually started organizing healthcare departments and health, health advocates to go into those persuadable offices. So we didn't go in with our, what our traditional boiler plate talking point. We actually create a health framing for those members. So what you realize is that you have to be very targeted. So is that just one thing to have a million people just flooding people email boxes, cause that's important sometimes. But if you want to really persuade a member, you have to figure out who's most influential. Who's the best messenger. When is the best time to bring that message to the conversation and what are the talking points you should have that messenger give? And most importantly, as a grass roots or even a grass tops, does that grit, that messaging really care about your issue. And so if you take that process, you begin to realize that you can get a lot more movement and get a lot more people, whether at the Capitol Hill, local government state government to be on our side.
Joe Fuld (25:43):
So talk to us a little bit about how grassroots mobilization and grasstops, tactics are changing, especially now during COVID-19.
Christopher Coes (25:52):
Yeah, well, first and foremost, I think it's, it has to be stated. Advocates had to do some self reflection. We are now the world has changed or the world was changing. And people of all stripes are realizing that we in of ourselves whether it's traditional organizations that have been great leaders on issues or whether it's public health, transportation alike are not the best representation of it. And they have to look introspectively, like who are we putting in front? Who are our lobbyists, who are advocates, who are grassroots? Who's our grasstops visually? So I think one of the big things that people need to do now is ask themselves, are we the most representative of the issue that we have? Are we inclusive? Have we, are we diverse? Do we have a racial injustice problem? Do we have a class problem? And that requires some introspection, so that's number one, number two. I think one of the things we're finding is prioritization of resources and gaining attention. You find now a lot of groups were saying, no one is talking about my issue and no one cares about my issue. And I was like, that's true. No one cares about your issue. If you're not bringing food on the table, if you're not helping someone save a job, nine out of 10, your issue is not going to be the most important thing. And it's going to be hard to get a member to be attentive to that issue. But this is also opportunity because what you learn in those environments is how can I develop relationships? And allyships for those who are doing the things that's most important for the moment. Because like, if, for instance, for smart growth America, we find that yes, we should be getting engaged in the anti-eviction space, even though that's not our bread and butter every day. But we realized we weren't renters to be closer to their jobs. And we know when the economy goes through a recession, they're going to be on the front lines. So how can we be supportive of other organizations? Because those organizations are going to remember who had their backs and they will have your back. And I think finally the last thing I would say is things that we're learning now in this day and age of COVID is that the traditional way of doing things is out the window. And that's a good thing. Technology is playing a huge role. I mean, I don't know how many times I'm able to do a zoom calls with a member of Congress and have 10 of five people from their districts on, Oh my gosh, it's instant. You're like, okay, we don't have to talk to him like Christopher you've proven you're a credible expert. You you've shown me the people I have the relationships let's talk about the policy, right. Also you find out now social media has actually elevated this conversation of engaging the grasstops and grassroots in ways you haven't done before. People are having dance parties. People are having Zoom watch parties, right? People, I remember a couple of years ago, smart growth America did this picture contest. You know, no one wanted to talk about sidewalks or bike lanes. Well, guess what? We were like, show us the most beautiful street in your neighborhood that you remember, and people would show like these beautiful streetscapes and yeah, they may have sidewalks on the side, but it really showed the experience. What I'm telling you, what I'm trying to illustrate here is now's the time to do a assessment. If you were a traditional in-person, you know, we had to go to directly, you know, that may not work, but how can you use technology, low cost tactics to really get even more bang for the buck, especially in a Castro strain time that we're in
Joe Fuld (29:33):
So if you're just starting out with grassroots and grass tops, and you're working with a limited budget, what are some of the tactics that you would recommend that folks start with?
Christopher Coes (29:44):
Well, the first thing I would tell you is maintain the lists, have a good database. Now I will say that, you know, traditional someone say Excel, okay, that's cheap, but there are tons of other products out there because what I find too often to have an effective grassroots-grasstops, it means you have to have a good database of maintaining context recording the relationship development, whether it's phone calls and emails of that nature. So that's number one. Number two, partnership, partnership partnerships. Especially now when you're starting out and you have so limited resources join other coalitions because that's another way to get, get greater access to grassroots and grasstops, whether it's through emails, sharing share social media campaigns and the like. And then lastly, I think this is really kind of a, a framework. Just continue to think outside the box every now and then it does require a staffer a paid staffer to do something. You might actually find that other individuals, whether you're going to healthcare space, you may have nurses who are really passionate and they will actually dial for dollars for you. So volunteers. So a lot of times think outside the box, use the resources you have and really empower d people to bring resources to the table that you otherwise may not be able to generate on your own.
Joe Fuld (31:09):
Well, I mean, Christopher, thanks so much for the time. It's so great chatting with you about this. If folks want to get ahold of you, they can reach out to smartgrowthamerica.org and get you there.
Christopher Coes (31:22):
Absolutely.
Joe Fuld (31:23):
Yeah. Christopher Coes, you've been a great guest. We look forward to staying in touch.
Christopher Coes (31:26):
Joe, thank you for having me.
Joe Fuld (31:28):
Absolutely. Thank you.
(Music)
Martín Diego Garcia (31:44):
And we're back, always good listening to Chris. I always learn something new every time he talks. He's one of the trainers for our advocacy training that we put on. But one of the highlight, a couple of things that Chris mentioned that I think are super important and the first one is metrics, right. And how important they are to help set and monitor target numbers for your context. Right. And that could be any, anything from volunteer sign-ups to commitments, to take actions. You could do pledge cards, whether by mail or digital, right. Counting of votes, right? How many legislators are with you or against you. Right. So making sure that there is some way to determine metrics for your campaign. Like the second one is doubling down on commitment, right? And so having folks sign letters to the editor or, or figuring out how to do op-eds in your local or state press, right. And figuring out who are the best folks to do that, to really solidify, solidifies by vesting keep grasstops engaged and add an element of a personal touch to that relationship. Again, relationships are really key here. So the more that you can get these grass tops, who I would imagine are doing a million and one things right outside of their, their personal lives, right? How do you create that real personal touch of why are they really involved in this particular action or cause, and continuing to remind them of that as you have asks for them to continue to be engaged,
Joe Fuld (33:06):
I will tell you that that like ask for engagement, thinking about the, getting people to fly in, meet legislators, meet them, where they are, or do zoom calls. Right. you want to make sure you're doing as much person to person engagement as you can around this. That to me is where it's really important. You know, we also, even when you can't meet people in person, making sure that you're doing things like recording conversations, sending those things, to them, creating quotes, sending that information to people, making sure that folks know there's real support behind an issue. Totally matters.
Martín Diego Garcia (33:47):
Definitely right? It helps, I mean, even though we cannot do in person, right? Like events, you could still do one-on-one right. You can still do individual phone calls. You can still do individual zoom meetings. Right. And, and when you can do that and really give a person a personal connection to that, to the efforts that you're making, then you get those 10 plus people, right. From that elected specific district or that, or influencers of that particular board member. Right. into a meeting face to face with them in order for them to do that.
Joe Fuld (34:18):
Yeah. I mean, old school tools like patch through calling, right. Really matter where you're getting members to patch through, to a legislative office that can make a difference. I just think it is trying to make sure folks know there really is real support on the ground.
Martín Diego Garcia (34:35):
What you mentioned about being local, right? I mean, yes. If you're working on the federal level, DC is probably important to your campaign, but if you're working on the local level, it's not, right? You have to think about where is the press, whether it's traditional media or it's blogs, right. Or it's an influencer on Twitter, right? Like who are the folks in which you need to connect with to amplify your message around your local issues? One of the ways of doing that is, is, is making sure that your member or supporter contacts are up to date. Right. And how do you make those folks work for you? Whether it's, as Joe mentioned, doing phone banks or patch through calls, having them write letters to their neighbors or letters to the decision-maker you were trying to just to get to move on your action. So think about that because perception can very much be reality, right? Once we think something is true, it is going to be true to us, whether the facts support it or not. Right. And so the more that you get local support and you show that there is buzz around your issue, it can really maximize impressions and the breadth of, of the impact that you're making, even though it may be a pretty small impact, if everybody in their own neighborhood is seeing it it may seem much larger than, it actually is.
Joe Fuld (35:48):
Martín one of the things that I think you talked about, which is really important is this idea of member contacts. You want to make sure that you're updating your member contacts all the time. If you just, all of a sudden have an advocacy campaign pop up and you've got to reach your members. If the contact info isn't isn't up-to-date, if you're not ready to go, you're going to be in real trouble. So this is something where the resources of your organization need to be set over the longterm so that you're ready to do this kind of engagement. And that will help you when you need specific target audiences in districts, right? Making sure you have membership in districts and you have the phone numbers of them, making sure you have allies in these districts and you have the phone numbers of them. I think I'm spouting a trend here. You want to make sure you have contact information for the people you need in specific areas. And you have it way ahead of time. If you feel like, you know, you don't have enough supporters to your cause, then you need to go out and get them. You doing things like running a petition campaign or doing organization with other groups and you know, other communities that just takes time. This is why you need to plan and have that goal way ahead of time before session starts.
Martín Diego Garcia (37:06):
Yeah. Switching gears a little bit to messaging here, Joe, can you talk a little bit about how, or where would your message change between talking to your grassroots folks versus talking to your grasstops folks.
Joe Fuld (37:16):
Well, I think your grasstops have probably a greater understanding of the issue, we would hope, than your grassroots though. Sometimes maybe not. And maybe sometimes not to the degree that you want them to. So what, when you're talking to grassroots, it's probably even more about impact, right? I'm sorry, grasstops. It's even more about impact grassroots. It's like a broader message of the issue, grass tops. It might be specific impact to that constituency where it matters, right? So let's say you work for an organization around nurses, right? And you're talking about COVID response and funding for nursing and funding for PPE and things like that to the general public, it needs, maybe we need to support our first responders. To nurses themselves, it's like, Hey, we have had X number of people in the nursing profession who have died because they have not had PPE. Right. I am a nurse. This is important. I have seen my coworkers get sick and not be able to go to work and using that personal story and those specifics to really engage. So that's how the message may change a little bit.
Martín Diego Garcia (38:28):
Definitely. And figuring out ways of which, how to connect with those folks. Right? How do you make sure that, you know, as much as possible about your targets, right, who are your decision making targets, but also your influencers, right? Who are those grass tops folks that you, again, want to make sure you understand the relationship you have with them and build a deeper one by knowing, right? Like what neighborhood did they live in, right. Like where do they, what other boards and organizations do they serve on? Right. And so that way you're connecting your issue to what is personal to them to hope that they always say yes, when you haven't asked for them.
Joe Fuld (38:59):
Right. And, and in that ask, make sure you're being very specific about what you want them to do. The biggest mistakes that I've seen people make around these advocacy campaigns is not telling the grassroots and not telling the grasstops exactly what you want them to do. Don't make the assumption that all of a sudden, that they know that they should be doing a patch-through call to their legislator, that they should be asking their legislator for a cup of coffee, that they should be signing an online petition. Tell them, here are the things we want you to do, create what we call an advocacy funnel that you move people through the easiest action, to the hardest action and get people more and more involved so that someone who comes in in your grassroots funnel becomes a grasstops activist.
Martín Diego Garcia (39:45):
Definitely, definitely. And so remember right, relationships are key, track them be specific with them and continue to build them as you continue to do your advocacy outreach, both on the grassroots and the grasstops, but that's a wrap for this episode. Thanks for listening. If you have specific questions or comments about grassroots or grass, tops, feel free to contact us using our social media or email address that are in the description.
Joe Fuld (40:08):
On our next episode, we'll be discussing storytelling with Greisa Martinez Rosas. So if you want to learn how to harness the power of a good story to captivate your audience and grow your movement, make sure to tune in next week.
Martín Diego Garcia (40:23):
Greisa is amazing. But until next time, this is Martín Diego Garcia.
Joe Fuld (40:26):
And Joe fold breaking down how to win an advocacy campaign.
Joe Fuld (40:31):
How to Win an Advocacy Campaign is Joe Fuld, Martín Diego Garcia, Hope Rohrbach, Daniel Lam, Heidi Job, and Elena Veatch. Music by Mike Pinto. Sound editing by The Global Startup Movement. Special thanks to the team at The Campaign Workshop. Remember to review like, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
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