Listen to the full, raw interview with Joe Sangirardi. Joe is a pro fundraiser at the Human Rights Campaign and knows a thing or two when it comes to getting donors to invest in your cause. Tune in to hear his best tips on how to fundraise during COVID-19 and what makes any ask successful.
The full, raw interview with Joe Sangirardi of the Human Rights Campaign. In this full interview, Joe shares his time tested best practices for advocacy fundraising. Find out what materials you should always have on hand when calling donors and learn the most important step you must take immediately following an ask.
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Martín Diego Garcia
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Presented by The Campaign Workshop
Martín Diego Garcia:
And we're back. And I am joined here by a dear friend of mine, Joe Sangirardi. Thank you for being with us.
Joe Sangirardi:
Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Martín Diego Garcia:
So Joe is a professional fundraiser with expertise in nonprofit advocacy and political fundraising. He currently serves as the associate director of leadership giving at the human rights campaign and was formally served as the deputy director of development. No, I said that wrong development director. Take that again. See, I already messed up. Joe is a professional fundraiser with expertise in nonprofit advocacy and political fundraising. He currently serves as the associate director of leadership giving at the human rights campaign and formerly served as the deputy. Damn. Why do we keep saying deputy development director? You can also say director of development. That's what it is. You were hired. You were in charge. Joe is a professional fundraiser with expertise in nonprofit advocacy and political fundraising. He currently serves as the associate director of leadership giving at the human rights campaign and formally serves as the development director at the leadership. Okay, I'm going to get this one out. I did this with Katie Ballenger the other week too. I kept flubbing on like one word on her. Damn, and I'm like, it's right in front of me. I just have to read it. Joe is a professional fundraiser with expertise in nonprofit advocacy and political fundraising. He currently serves as the associate director of leadership giving at the human rights campaign and formerly serves as the development director at the LGBTQ victory fund and Institute, uh, his work to advance LGBTQ equality, Joe connects equally minded philanthropists with opportunities to make substansive why can't I read this subs? Sorry. One more time. I promise I'll get it. Actually no promises. Joe is a professional fundraiser with expertise in nonprofit advocacy and political fundraising. He serves as the associate director of leadership giving at the human rights campaign and formally serves as the development director at the LGBTQ victory funded Institute in his work to advance LGBTQ equality. Joe connects equally minded philanthropists with opportunities to make substantive impact in the fight for full legal equality for the LGBT community. Uh, thank you for being here and thanks for the work that you're doing. Equality minded. I said equally minded dammit. So close. So close One last time,
Martín Diego Garcia:
Joe is a professional fundraiser with expertise in nonprofit advocacy and political fundraising. He currently serves as the associate director of leadership giving at the Human Rights Campaign and formally served as the development director at the LGBTQ Victory Fund and Institute. In his work to advance LGBTQ equality, Joe connects equality minded philanthropists with opportunities to make substantive impact in the fight for full legal equality for the LGBTQ community. As a member of that community thank you for the work that you're doing.
Joe Sangirardi:
Happy to be doing it, trying to just get equality for the rest of us.
Martín Diego Garcia:
I mean, right, hello? As we jump right in here, can you talk to us a little bit about how you got into the fundraising field and why you stayed in it?
Joe Sangirardi:
Yeah, I mean to start off, you know, I've always been involved and interested in politics and when I was, you know, coming to graduation from college, I kept on thinking like, what can I do? How, what kind of an impact can I make? What can I do politically? And I realized that, you know, I mean, this was a couple of years, a few years after Citizens United where politics was flooding, you know, money was flooding politics. And I just kept on thinking it's money. We've got to do, we've got to raise money to fix the system. Right. so I wound up getting a job in my alma mater the University of Oklahoma after graduation working in fundraising. Cause I wanted to learn the traps of it, you know, how it works, what strategies are effective. And that's really kind of how I've stuck with it. I worked at the university for about a year and a half, and then I realized, you know, I started an LGBTQ scholarship at the university. I realized I really cared about that area. Um but I knew that it was time to kind of move into the political space, the advocacy space. And that's because that's where my heart really lived. So ultimately that's, as you mentioned earlier I previously worked at the LGBTQ Victory Fund and Institute. And that's what led me there.
Martín Diego Garcia:
Yeah. I mean, for as we talk about a lot of folks, their first desire around doing advocacy work is not necessarily raising the money, although as we know money, make the world go round and, and it makes obviously advocacy work possible. So I am glad that there are good people who are out there doing it like yourself. As our listeners are thinking about whether they're fundraising for the work that they're doing, or they're working with a fundraiser, what would make a good fundraiser for advocacy? Are there specific qualities or characteristics that folks should look for in a fundraiser, whether they're hiring it internally or thinking about bringing on a consultant?
Joe Sangirardi:
It's a good question, it's a big question. I think the, the simple answer that I would always come to is find a true believer, right? I mean, you need to find somebody who you need to be. Somebody believes in the work you know nonprofits aren't known for paying their employees. Well, we're not known for having, you know, a million different resources that you can use to figure things out. And it, it really requires a sort of resiliency. And I think that being a true believer and really understanding what the work is and wanting to dedicate yourself to it is an essential part of that. So I mean, I would say that that's the number one thing. Then it gets a little bit I'll change gears a little bit and beyond being a true believer. I think you have to be mentally agile enough to accept that fundraising is also a science. It's not just about caring about the work. It's about understanding that fundraising like any other profession is a profession. There is a science to it. There are techniques, there's experimentation, there are there are so many different ways you can go about it, but you really have to focus in on that. You know, just as, I mean, there is this inherent tension that I think most fundraisers like myself feel where, you know, we, we do the work because we care about the work. Um, but like, you know, when you've got a fundraising deadline, right. Or whether or not it's on a campaign or it's for your annual budget for your advocacy organization or nonprofit, um, you've got to figure out a way to meet that budget, right? And there's this, there's this inherent tension that you want to deliver for the work and you want to raise the money for it, but also that you might feel like you're, you have to get pushy, right. Or you might have to be aggressive, or you might have to make an ask that you weren't necessarily thinking of before in order to reach that goal. And I think that it's important. When you look at fundraising through the perspective of being a science, being a profession, I think it really helps you kind of understand and frame the experiences that you're going through as you pursue that.
Martín Diego Garcia:
Yeah. I think there has been through whether it's family or upbringing or just living in America, right. This idea of like money is taboo. I like to talk about money as taboo to ask people for money s a weird thing. We're not sort of naturally raised to do these types of things, but we have no problem asking people to volunteer or go canvassing or do a phone bank, right. Or show up to an event. And yet it's always the money piece that, that sort of gives people to hiccup. And I think one fundraiser that I had worked with always said, you know, people can donate and give in different ways. Right? Some people donate their time and volunteer, right? Like some people donate their networks and their connections, and some people don't have the time to do those two things so they can donate money. Right. So you're just giving them the opportunity to invest which goes to that science, right. Of like, there are tactics when you're doing the field work, right. You contact a person three or four times to confirm that they're going to show up for that canvass or that phone bank. Right. The same goes for fundraising. You have to figure out what that process is and what that, what those techniques are. As you were thinking about, Oh, go ahead.
Joe Sangirardi:
If I can add, you know, part of the going from both believing in the work and feeling for the work, that's such a strong driver for fundraisers when it comes to nonprofits. But when you're able to look at fundraising as more of a science, when you get a, no, it doesn't quite hurt the same, right. If you're purely coming at it from the experience of like doing this, because it feels good or because you feel you're making a difference and getting a no, when you make an ask for someone to invest in your organization or your cause, that can feel so demoralizing and disruptive. Right. And it can actually feel like an indictment of your self worth and your life and how you're spending your time. But when you look at it from a science perspective, you realize, well, it takes three asks to get someone to a yes. So you're automatically going to get several nos. And you know that statistically, you're going to get nos before you get to a yes, right now. Also when you, when you make an ask, you're not just asking someone for resources, you're, you know, we, we think of fundraising as this, like one directional sort of experience where I, as a fundraiser, I'm asking this person who might have money or does have money, you know, to invest in my cause, but we're also offering them something. Right. I can't tell you the number of times where I've been reached out to, by someone asking me for money and, you know, I'll agree to a coffee or something. And they'll tell me a story about their nonprofit. And all of a sudden, I never realized how much I cared about what they're doing. Right. And I'm like, yes, I didn't, I had no idea this was an issue, but yes, I went to help with that. Yes. I want to fix that. Like, and the pride and excitement that I felt from that, like I also get something from that experience. And as a fundraiser, you a are providing other individuals on a consistent basis and opportunity to change the world, to make a substantive difference in the lives of other people, whether or not it's, you know, in their own neighborhood or across the world, like you're giving them a chance. And every ask you don't make from someone every time you don't send that email or don't make that call to ask someone to invest in your cause. You're taking an opportunity away from them to invest in it and to feel like they're actually making a difference.
Martín Diego Garcia:
I think we can wrap right there. I think that, I think you just nailed it on its head. No, I am just kidding, but no, but absolutely right. It's super inspiring when you think about it and you can sort of switch the framing in your head for being like, Ooh, fundraising of this scary thing to this idea of like, no, it's just an Avenue in which folks can make an impact. Right. It's just a different Avenue. And if you think about it the same, it may make it a little bit easier.
Joe Sangirardi:
Yeah. I mean, I think one thing that a lot of people who are either in fundraising or fundraising adjacent, um, experiences, you know, they feel, they feel weird when they're like doing research on someone, right. Learning about them, like using, um, tools like wealth engine or double donation to kind of understand what someone's capacity is, what their interests might be, right. Where they work, that sort of thing. And we feel like it's very unscrupulous, right? Like, Oh my God, like this is creepy and I'm stalking someone or whatever. But like, what you're doing is you're narrowing down the world to try to understand who might be most interested in your cause. So that you're both not wasting the resources of your own organization, trying to find people. And you're finding the people who are most likely to want to care about your cause that do care about your cause that might want to invest in it. They might have the capacity to do so. Right. It's we, I think that there are a lot of misconceptions about that, but I mean, again like this, this is a part of the process and a part of the science. And again, it's an invitation to invest. It's an invitation to make a difference. It doesn't need to be as one directional.
Martín Diego Garcia:
Yeah. I mean, we, we do our targeting and our research when we communicate with our audiences. Right. We do that same thing, that same data thing around demographic geographic information, you want to do the same. So you're being as effective and efficient with your resources in the fundraising space.
Martín Diego Garcia:
So as you, as you get to the ask part, and you've mentioned this a couple of times, right? You're you finally get there and you're going to make the ask for a specific amount of money. Right. What are some key components that fundraisers should do include when they're making that ask?
Joe Sangirardi:
I mean, you already said one of the most important words, which is specific. I think a lot of us, you know I, I can't remember the last time I had a call or I can't remember the last time I had a meeting period because, you know, COVID times, but like, I can't remember the last time I had a, a meeting in which I was going to make an ask that I didn't know beforehand specifically what I was going to be asking for. So, you know, I mean, I raised for a C3, a C4, you know, so a nonprofit and advocacy organization, a super PAC, I've raised for candidates. Like I, I rarely ever go into a meeting or a conversation without knowing specifically what my goal is to ask. Right. Even though that might not be what they ultimately give. I have a very clear picture in my head of that. And I also think that it's important to have a couple backups. Right. You know, if you're going to ask somebody for, let's just say like $5,000, like that might be the first ask and they might say no. So it's important to, you know, $5,000. Might've not been the right ask. It might be the right ask, but it might be the first time and they're just really not sure they might have a financial situation, whatever it might be, but it's important to then have a specific second ask. Well, can you do $2,500? Well, do you know a few people who might be interested in contributing, you know, do you know anyone who might be able to contribute $5,000 or five people who might be able to contribute a thousand dollars, right. Having that specificity ahead of time, um, helps you in what is otherwise for a lot of people, a kind of uncomfortable situation, and I'm not talking about the person being asked for money, I'm talking about the person actually asking the money. It is, it is uncomfortable. Right. Um, I think that's important, um, for the framing, you know, that I mentioned earlier about approaching it as you're offering something, because it makes it feel less awkward and less one directional when you're doing it. And it really does feel like an invitation, right. An invitation to make a change. Um, and every subsequent ask, you know, if they say no to the first one, having that second opportunity means that you're not just giving up. It's not just, it wasn't just a waste of time for both parties. Right. Um, it means that you still see value in what they're able to contribute to your organization. And you're able to find that value by being prepared with a couple backup asks.
Martín Diego Garcia:
Right? Plan B, C, D, E.
Joe Sangirardi:
Exactly. Exactly. As many as you need.
Martín Diego Garcia:
And at the very least, right? Like you are building that relationship, right? Like you have, you have brought them into the fold, right? Like you are building up that trust, uh, and understanding what they need.
Joe Sangirardi:
It's very rare that you make an ask of somebody and they're offended by it. And if it's, and if you're asking more than what they're able to do, like, it's very rare that someone's offended that you thought that they were wealthier than they are. It really, it really doesn't happen. Right. Um, I do want to, uh, I think it's also important. Like, you know, you asked about, well, what else, what are the key components of making an ask, um waiting. Right. I think the most challenging part of a fundraiser's job is not actually making the ask. It's waiting for a response after you've made it right. We have this natural urge to fill the space of when it feels awkward, right. To speak, to talk, you know, to like, Oh, would you give this? Oh, well, you know, like, Hey, if that's not right, you know, we, we have this natural tendency to fill the space. But when you make an ask of someone, nine times out of 10, they're thinking about it, right. They're thinking about a response. So thinking about whether or not that's the right ask for themselves, whether or not they can afford that, whether or not this is how they want to invest in it, whether or not they want to learn more. And by you trying to immediately fill the space, if they're quiet for a second, after you make an ask, you're taking the opportunity away from them to actually think about your request. Right. So you're cutting yourself off at the knees and you're taking an opportunity away from them to actually seriously consider what you, what you put in front of them. Um, so I, you know, if somebody were to ask me, what are the two most important things about an ask, it's be specific and wait.
Martín Diego Garcia:
Yup. Right. Take a, take a drink of water. Right. Accidentally cough. Right. Whatever you need to do to stop yourself from talking them out of giving to you. So you talked a little bit about, right, like personal asks individual asks, you set up a meeting with an individual donor or supporter, right to ask for money. What are some other different ways that advocacy organizations, campaigns could raise money for their, for their organizations or their cause?
Joe Sangirardi:
There are so many ways. And I think one of the one of the challenges, a lot of organizations and fundraisers have is that they think very they think too specifically about what funds are too narrowly about what fundraising is and how it's done. And they assume that it is all meetings or a call, right? When in reality, like most nonprofits have what we call like revenue streams. Right? You have, you have strategies that are built out for all of these different areas in your organization and people who work on these. And even if it's the same person working on multiple different strategies for multiple different revenue streams, whether it's email texting, snail mail yes. Meetings calls there are events, events are huge, right? Like there are so many different ways. And I think any successful nonprofit is going to try to diversify their revenue streams in several different areas, have strategies for each, regardless of what size the organization is, right? One person, you know, a three person organization with one fundraiser or, you know, an organization of one person with just the ED can develop a few different strategies for different revenue streams, right. And allowing that diversification of revenue from different places, whether it's events and meetings and email, let's just say those three, right. Allows you to kind of stabilize your budget and your revenue for the organization in a way that allows you to get a little bit more creative and expand, right. When you put all of your eggs into one basket. I mean, imagine in COVID times an organization that funds 90% of its annual operating budget based off of events, where is that organization today? Right. I mean, they are, are struggling. They've laid off people like they're, you know, having a really hard time, but having diversity allows that, you know, while they've been building up all of these different revenue streams, they're able to experiment in different ways during these strange COVID, you know, fundraising environment,uand find ways to make up for that deficit. Umyou know, I think as an example right now,uyou know, the other night,uI, I worked with a lot of major donors and we had a,umajor donor social. Right. And it was, it was not the sort of, you know, we have events throughout the year, all the time generally, but we haven't had a lot since COVID had started. Uand as a result, you know, we find that not all of our major donors want, you know, to socialize with one another, a lot of them don't, you know, some people they want to write a check. Some people just want a call once a year or a couple of times a year, maybe when an email with, you know, a white paper on, you know, different things that organizations working on. Ubut you know, we had 20 people on a call the other night,uwhich is a very high number considering the small universe of people that we invited to it. And they loved it. And these are, these are folks who wanted to be social, you know, and that's that in of itself is meeting the donors where they are,uand providing some value for them beyond just asking them for money. Um,and donors, supporters, they care when they see that you're investing time and energy and that you care. Right. So even if you're sending an invitation them an invitation for an event that they don't want to come to, or they're not interested in, people appreciate the invitation. People appreciate the effort that you're putting into it and that you put something together in case they do want to join. Right. Yeah.
Martín Diego Garcia:
It wasn't going to be invited. I mean, I wasn't going to go, but I wanted to be invited. Right.
Joe Sangirardi:
That's exactly right. I wanted to have the opportunity to say no.
Martín Diego Garcia:
Exactly I wanted to have the opportunity to not show up. No, exactly. But they're not ATM machines. Right. You're treating them as actual human beings. Like there's actual people who you, you are building these relationships with, which sort of takes me to my next topic here around as listeners are building out a fundraising plan, which is what you're talking about as you're thinking about different streams of revenue, how you're doing research on your donors, right. Are there other key components that they should be thinking about as they're building out a fundraising planet and trying to achieve their goals?
Joe Sangirardi:
Yeah. I mean the first big thing is budget, right? I mean, the question is what are you trying to accomplish and what will it cost? Right. I think a lot of people you know, they might start from the perspective of like, well, what can I raise? And like, let's just define what I can do with the amount of money that I'm able to raise. Right. But a lot of times when you're starting out on an initiative or an organization, like you don't actually know what you're gonna be able to raise, so you need to have some sort of a vision and the vision is what you're able to sell. So I think having, putting together some sort of a budget and having subsequent budgets, right? You know, when I build out a, um, you know, fund raising strategy, I've always got best case, worst case, well, best case, middle case, worst case. Right. Um, and you know, I will, um, I will try to diversify my revenue stream and my strategy to like, meet the best case. But sometimes when you, you know, when you don't hit your best case scenario for your fundraising, that's a very stressful time, right? I mean, it's hard to think clearly it's hard to understand what decisions you actually need to make, who you need to be talking to about this. But by having prepared a couple other budget scenarios, it's going to make it much easier to adapt and be like, actually I already know that these are the decisions I need to make in this game, in this moment of potential crisis. And because of that, I can be much more clearheaded about it and I can strategize how to actually execute it as opposed to having this existential crisis about whether or not the work is going to actually happen. So, I mean, the one first thing is a budget. The second is of course the fundraising plan itself. Right. Which also should be a part of the budget because it costs money to raise money. Right. I mean, it's, what do you, how much are you trying to raise? Where are you going to raise it from? How much can you raise from the different revenue streams? How can you make those consistent and who else can you bring in to help you with it? Right? Whether or not you're a nonprofit of one person, three people, or 200 people, there are experts in the space. And there are people, um, whether or not they're donors or board members who are invested in the success of the organization and have expertise in this. There are, and especially with board members, the fun thing about board members is that they rarely have only ever served on one board. Right. They've served on boards before they know how it works. Um, even if they aren't a good fundraiser or don't like fundraising, they still have some ideas of based off of their experience of what can work.
Martín Diego Garcia:
Yeah. I, and I'm glad you brought up that idea of, of bringing in budgets, right? Because as you talk about specificity, in terms of the ask, the donors also probably also going to want some specificity of like, and here's where that money is going to go to. Right. And for you to be prepared with here's the plan, here's how much it's going to cost. This is where the resources are going. This is the impact that's going to make. Again, going back to that fundraising as a science, right? You being prepared with all that. It's only going to make, hopefully that ask go a smoother.
Joe Sangirardi:
And as far as asks go, um, I do think it's important that we talk about the experimentation of message. Right? A lot of nonprofits are, um, you, you come up with a messaging campaign, you come up with like, I mean, just imagine like the different kinds of emails that you receive from nonprofits, right? You've got a lot of different messages. Some of them actually work better than others. And you know, when I, when I go to a one on one meeting with a prospect as in to invest, um, in my organization, I don't say I don't give them the same pitch each time. Right. I find out their interests. I ask, you know, I ask the questions and I experiment a little bit with like what the pitches and what the messages, right. Based off of their interests and based off of like what may or may not work. And that helps me refine my message and understand like, based off of the kinds of people that I'm meeting with, what is the best way to speak with them? Right. What, what kind of language do they use? That makes sense? So that we're not actually talking past each other when I make an ask. Um, and I think one, one last thing, as far as building a fundraising plan, one of the easiest things you can do, that's going to make your life so much easier is having some evergreen products, whether or not it's like a one pager or three pager, um, or a website about your organization and the work that you're doing, having something that you don't have to constantly update that every time you follow up with somebody from a meeting or somebody makes a gift online and you want to like, send them more information about your organization, having a couple documents or, or a document on each like program or service organization provides that you can send easily, that you only have to update once a year, it's going to make your life a lot easier than every time some donor asks you a question and you want to answer them having to rewrite a two page prospectus on exactly what they're asking about.
Martín Diego Garcia:
Yeah. when most of the time, 90% of that's the same. Right. And some leave it behind, but you're giving them. Um so we've talked about this a little bit in terms of relationships with the donors and those being super critical to the success of your fundraising career, right, I imagine, any tips for our listeners, as they're thinking about best ways to build those relationships with their donors and supporters?
Joe Sangirardi:
Yeah. I mean relationships are key and, you know, people will invest in you as much as you invest in them and they'll do so to their own ability, just like you do so to your own ability. So I think it's important to legitimate, be interested, genuinely be interested in learning about the donor, learning about their lived experience, learn about what they care about, ask them questions from a cynical side of things, people like talking about themselves, right. But like from a purely like human perspective, like people like getting to learn about each other and find opportunities to connect and like figure out what shared interests they have. And like, so make sure that you ask questions and allow yourself to be vulnerable, like allow yourself to like, talk about your lived experience and why this organization is important to you. Um, and you know, it is, it has been rare. I don't think I've ever had an experience where I've met with a prospect or a donor where I haven't been able to discuss the work for the organization I worked at where it didn't align with at least one of their interests, right? Whether or not that's in volunteering or investing, you know, their, um, money. Um, there's always some common ground. And I think the Mark of a good fundraiser is figuring that out, finding that common ground. And, you know, once you figure that out, it, the relationship can bloom much faster. Um I also think that building trust is one of the hardest things to do, especially with you know, when you're meeting somebody for the first time you you're making an ask and they think that, Oh, this person just thinks I'm an ATM. They just want the money they're going to be gone. Like, so again, lead with the vulnerability. And when they ask you a question, be direct, answer it, don't talk around it. Don't try to come up with, you know, extravagant, you know, work around to try to make them think that you've answered the question, be direct, be vulnerable, tell them like, I don't know the answer, but let me please give me the opportunity to come back to you. Right. And I think that being that honest with someone, I both, I think it's a sign of respect. I think it builds trust and you're more likely to continue on with building the relationship because of that. Um, and with that, um, being with putting honesty and respect, first and foremost, a lot of times, you know, I'm a donor, a prospect might have an idea of how they can help. Um, but you were the person who understands your organization the best. Um, you know, so you might get an offer for oh well have you tried to try this or done this? Or here's what I would like to do for you, right. It's okay to say, no, you don't have to appease everyone, in your organization isn't for everyone, your fundraising strategy doesn't fit with every request that comes in and you might not have the time, the energy or the resources to accept all the requests and different ways that people might want to support your organization. So be strong and understand that, like it isn't for everyone and it's okay to say no to a donor, even if that means you're not going to get that gift.
Martín Diego Garcia:
Yeah. Yeah. As you're saying these things right. About being vulnerable and telling your personal story and doing your research right, it's all things that we talk about in other episodes in terms of how do you tell your personal story and do storytelling, right? How do you do targeting and data in terms of who you should be communicating with, whether it's community organizing or legislative action and it's, it's those same fundamentals that you adapt to fundraising, right. To still be effective relationship building, et cetera. You've mentioned this a couple of times, right? As we live in the land of COVID now and are still sort of trying to navigate and figure out what that means for what our new reality is going to be. Obviously the fundraising world has changed as has everything else since the pandemic started. Are there ways in creative ways in which you all have adapted and which you've thought about things that organizations should be thinking about as they adapt to these changes?
Joe Sangirardi:
Yeah. I think my first thought when all this was happening, when all this kind of started and we weren't really sure where it was going to go was how do we, how do we keep the folks who've been investing with us the longest, right? How do we show them that we appreciate their support. We respect the investment they've made in the organization. And how do we keep them? Because, you know, finding new people to support a cause is expensive, right? It takes a lot of time and energy. And when, you know, I mean, nonprofits across the board have seen a decline in funding since the pandemic started. And it's really hard for organizations. So who are the folks you are gonna look to? You're gonna look to your core supporters. The people who've been there for the longest. And I think that, you know, our natural inclination is going to be to ask them for a lot more money or ask all of these other people for money and focus on like all of the new dollars. Right. But you need to focus on the fundamentals and know that, you know, these people have invested with you for a long time for a reason. So make them feel valued and appreciated. I think that that's the big, the biggest thing. You know, we also, you have in this moment, you'll have donors who may have supported you for a long time, but they've hit hard times. A lot of folks have. And I think it's leading with empathy, you know, saying thank you so much for your support. We understand that you can't, you know, contribute right now. Like, would you mind if I reached out in a few months to see if things have changed, right. And you know, and in the meantime, you know, please don't worry about it. Like we're going to keep you on the books. Like we will still invite you to things like, please, we're not here to provide you any stress. I just want to let you know how much we appreciate you. And I hope you'll give us the opportunity to ask if you can continue your support in a few months. Right. So that's, that's just one perspective I think, to go into it with I also think, you know, we all, I mean, fundraisers, um, have, you know, we've got lists of people we've we thought these folks that we've been thinking about folks we've been cultivating over time, we've been having conversations with, um, and that there's a time to make an ask it's now some people are suffering. Some people aren't, a lot of people still aren't. Right. A lot of people have seen their fortunes rise in this pandemic, which seems so strange, but it's true in like far, be it for me to keep an opportunity from them where they can put their fortune rising to good use to help other people. Right. So I think at this moment, you know, don't be scared to make the ask and even, you know, it might not be, you might be thinking like, Oh, well, we're going to plan, you know, in early 2021, or you know where this is a few year process, um, it's uncomfortable. Oh, I need, you know, my executive director to make that call, not me, like figure out a way to make it happen. Um, people are not going to be offended if you make an ask and they can't give right now. And there's certainly not going to be offended. Um, if they know that you're coming from coming with the ask because your organization actually needs it.
Martín Diego Garcia:
Right. Yeah. I, I know a lot of people, right. Whose 2020 plans of vacation have been canceled. And if you go make a, Hey, you could still utilize that vacation fund in a very positive way to here's how you can do it. Right. Get creative.
Joe Sangirardi:
And to your point, I mean, that's, that is creative. Right. And I think that this is if ever there were a moment to be creative when it comes to fundraising, this is it. Right. I mean, we had a major donor social on zoom, right. Like, I will tell you when we first started, when everything shut down, there were all these zoom happy hours and stuff. And we, I got zoomed out. I was so over, so done. Didn't like it, right. It's been a few months now. I think people have been able to kind of rein it in a bit and you know, people, these folks hadn't seen each other in so long, you know, and they're used to seeing each other at least a few times a year and they loved it. Right. Get creative, find a way to do it. Um, you know, one of the, um, you know, I had a conversation with, um, during it the other day and they were like, Hey, I can't do this right now. But you know, like, let me know if there's any way I can help. And I was like, absolutely, we're doing phone banking. Right? Like you might not be able to give money right now, but if you've got a few hours, like there are calls that you can make to swing districts in Pennsylvania, right. To where you can still contribute directly to the work.
Martín Diego Garcia:
Yeah. Well, thank you, Joe, for joining us on this episode.
Joe Sangirardi:
I'm happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me. I've enjoyed it.
Martín Diego Garcia:
Yeah, I'm sure. And I hope the listeners got as much out of your experience and your expertise and your insights as I did. And if you want to learn more about the work that Joe is doing over the Human Rights campaign, we will put that in the episode notes. And so please reach out if you have any other questions and as it regards to advocacy fundraising, but we'll be right back.