Listen to the full, raw interview with Courtney Snowden of Blueprint Strategies. Courtney is a veteran lobbyist who knows how to move issues through the policymaking process. In this interview, she reveals what it's really like to work in an oft misunderstood profession and gives her best tips on how a lobbyist can help your advocacy campaign.
The full, raw interview with Courtney Snowden of Blueprint Strategies. Lobbying has long been perceived as a secretive and even unethical, and Courtney wants to change that. Tune in to hear what lobbyists really do to get issues moving through the policymaking process, and find out who Courtney thinks are the best lobbyists she's ever known.
Resources
Lobby Visits for Nonprofits: Planning a Lobby Day
How Do I Kick Off My Legislative Advocacy Program?
I'm Just a Bill Song-Schoolhouse Rock
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Joe Fuld (00:17):
And we're back. Courtney Snowden is the founder and principal lobbyists at blueprint strategies, a DC-based lobbying firm. Prior to that, she was an in-house lobbyist, the deputy mayor for greater economic opportunity, was a candidate for the Washington DC council, a principal at the Raben group. She lobbied for clients such as Google, MasterCard, national education association, national urban league. She was also a senior lobbyist for the National PTA, chair of the National Coalition for Public Education and the national policy manager for the Gay Lesbian and Straight Education Network. Also, she is the founder of Black Girl Magic, the Peloton edition. Courtney, welcome to the show.
Courtney Snowden (01:24):
Oh, Joe, you make me sound so great. Thank you so so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here with you.
Joe Fuld (01:31):
Well, you and I have been friends for a crazy long time and it is, I am super excited to have you on the program. You and I have done training all across the country together for the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund and Victory Institute. We've it's, it's just great to have you talking about the topic of lobbying.
Courtney Snowden (01:51):
Oh, it's one of my favorite things to talk about. Definitely one of my favorite things to do and you know, w I feel like we've known each other a hundred years. You see me through so many different iterations of my career and personal life, so it's, you know where some bodies are buried, so we've gotta be careful how this conversation goes.
Joe Fuld (02:07):
Well, I mean, I also think like the reason to have you on the program, there's a lot to learn from, you have seen sort of this, this issue you've seen lobbying from many different sides, and I think it's really important for our audience to understand it. So start first with, what do you think are three misconceptions about lobbying?
Courtney Snowden (02:28):
Oh, I feel like there's so many misconceptions about lobbying. If people actually know what it is at all right. But most people think that only corporations have lobbyists that they're sitting in sort of smoke filled back rooms with big glasses of whiskey doing sort of things that are just untowared to I guess, undermine the American people or harm the American people or somehow pass laws that are only in the interest of business. And then I think the other big misconception, which is sort of implied in some of the other stuff I said, is that lobbying is a bad thing, that there's something unethical or wrong about it. And I think those things, you know, even for a long time, when I would tell people what I did for a living and I'd say, Oh, I'm a lobbyist. And I do it with great pride. They would turn their nose up or have a really, really strong reaction to what is, I think, a very noble profession.
Joe Fuld (03:25):
All right. So first let's start with the big obvious question. What does a lobbyist do?
Courtney Snowden (03:30):
Yeah, it's the right question. So all a lobbyist does, is advocate on behalf of a set of issues or people before elected officials who have an ability to change policy and laws or administration officials like in the white house or at the mayoral level or for governor. So literally all they are people who organize information, share information with elected officials and urge them to make policy change in one direction or another. So you, when you read my bio, you mentioned, I lobby for the national PTA. I remember telling a friend that the national PTA has lobbyists. Of course they have lobbyists. They care deeply about education policy. They want to see education policy positively impacted with with parents, teachers, and students in mind. And so they work every day to come up with a policy agenda and to move policy throughout Congress and in state houses and state senates across the country to make sure that kids have access to high quality education. Who can argue with that?
Joe Fuld (04:31):
Yeah, but I mean, you, you mentioned right, you started out by when, when I asked like three misconceptions, there's that negative stigma that often people have about lobbyists. Why do you think that exists?
Courtney Snowden (04:43):
Two words, Jack Abramoff I think, you know, here's the reality, right? Jack Abramoff was not a lobbyist. He was a criminal. And that's the real fundamental issue when you hear negative stories about lobbyists. So when you watch house of cards and see, well, all the things that you see on house of cards, right? The reality is those folks are not real lobbyists. Those are people who are doing really unethical, untowards, things that are illegal, sometimes. I am, I, in my experience, a lobbyist literally works with a group of people who have an interest. Sometimes they're, non-profits, sometimes it's a group of moms. Sometimes it's a corporation, but lobbyists are critical to making sure that the legislative process can happen effectively. They become expert in an issue and usually our best and most well-positioned to explain the issue and the impact of legislation as it moves through Congress, into law.
Joe Fuld (05:35):
Yeah, but I mean, one of the things that, I mean, we're going to talk about what a good lobbyist does, because I think it's important, you know, when we can talk about old school, new school lobbying later on, but like. The best lobbyist I've ever worked with, or ones that really understand the process, they understand how a bill is going to happen and going to move. And then what are the levers to engage around that bill, whether it's going through a committee, whether it's going to the hole, whether this issue is going to be a rider already on a specific legislation, that's not actually going through a committee, all sorts of technical things.
Joe Fuld (07:57):
Talk about the strategic role that a lobbyist plays.
Courtney Snowden (08:02):
Yeah. So what a lobbyist is really expert in, besides the set of issues that they work on is the process by which laws get made. So everyone remembers I'm only a bill. Well, it doesn't really play as much anymore. So some of the younger folks might have, right.
Joe Fuld (08:16):
It's still awesome. We'll put it in the show notes. I'm just a bill sitting on Capitol Hill. I can sing the whole thing, but yeah,
Courtney Snowden (08:28):
The reality is that's usually not how loss bills become law. The song is great as a framework, but that's not actually how it works, right? There are things obviously the house passes a bill, the Senate passes a bill, but before they get to that, there's a committee hearing in the committee of jurisdiction. There is and, and even starts before that with an idea about a piece of legislation. So let's just say if my, my three-year-old was writing legislation, it would be free candy every Friday from 12 to six. Right? Okay. So he would come up with an idea. He would find a group of people who believe as he does that it should happen. He would find a member of Congress and a member of the Senate. And hopefully he find to have a bipartisan bill, Senate, Senate, Republican Senate Democrat, a house Republican, a house Democrat with some level of engagement on the committee of jurisdiction. Hopefully they're on the committee of jurisdiction and he would work with them and the legislative counsel in the House and the Senate to pass, to draft a bill, to introduce that bill and to move it through the committee process, the committee members would Mark it up or, or amend the bill to make changes to it. So maybe it's not free candy from 12 to six, but it's free candy from nine to four, right. Because that's just a better time and fits with what I don't know why, but maybe that's,
Joe Fuld (09:43):
Hopefully it's free candy from maybe three to five, right? A two hour block early, I'm going to want later in there.
Courtney Snowden (09:58):
Right. And the national PTA would say only an hour. And then the American dental association might get involved and say less candy or only Hershey's kisses because they're not so bad after you get your teeth cleaned. Right. But everyone, this, this is actually a really good example.
Joe Fuld (10:12):
Yeah, this is the process.
Courtney Snowden (10:12):
Everybody has an interest in the bill and then they weigh in with their elected officials and, and then it moves to the floor and you can amend on the floor of the House and the Senate. And then if it works and you have a house bill that passes and a Senate bill that passes, then it gets conferenced. They create one bill and that's the bill that gets that passes and then goes to the president. But there are a lot of pieces in between and the more nuanced stuff, which is why having a lobbyist is really important is that there's some bills, lots of bills get introduced every year. Thousands of bills get introduced in Congress or in state houses every year or in city councils, even too but only a handful actually pass and become law. And of those, there are key must pass bills. Defense reauthorization has to get passed. Appropriations, even if it's an omnibus bill where they put all of the funding bills together and pass them as one big bill that has to pass. A continuing resolution to continue to fund the government, has to pass highway bill has the pass. And so when there are bills that have to pass, that is when lobbyists do their real work, because that's when you have an opportunity to put as many things in one of these bigger bills as possible so that you can either take care of your clients or your interests.
Joe Fuld (11:21):
Yeah. I mean, so, so I guess, you know, one of the big things that you're talking about right, is prioritization, right? Making your issue a top priority, getting an, either part of a bigger package that passes or having that bill be, you know, a top priority. How does that happen? How do you make sure that like, you know, not every client that you come to is going to be able to have a bill that becomes a top priority and moves. I mean, that's gotta be hard conversations as a lobbyist to say, Hey, you know, this is a great idea, but this thing might not move in four to six years. Right. How do you have that conversation?
Courtney Snowden (12:01):
So interestingly enough, particularly on the corporate side, that conversation as far easier, um, because most times, uh, there's an interest in having things not happen in Congress that impact your business, then having something proactive happen. But I will say, um, in my entire career, when I started my career as a young lobbyist at the human rights campaign, um, I started working on hate crimes, hate crimes legislation. And I am confident that Barack Obama signed hate crimes into law. I think, I can't remember. It's been so many years ago, but here's the point I worked on it for almost 15 years, almost the entire beginning of my career. I worked on some form of fashion of the hate crimes bill, and it just takes a long time to pass. And so helping people understand the opportunity, I forgot this one with a peer, helping people understand the opportunity. Yeah. Hold on. Let me turn this off. I didn't even know this.
Joe Fuld (13:03):
Start with, so understanding that people the opportunity, right. Get to that. And we'll, we'll cut there.
Courtney Snowden (13:09):
Okay. Um, so understanding ready? Yes. Okay. So understanding, um, what opportunity there is to pass, to move a piece of legislation what actually exists and what the timeframe really is, and really setting expectations for folks is I think the most important part people watch television. And this is actually, this was a huge misconception about lobbying people, watch television and think it takes less than a year to move a bill from drafting to, to signed law. Now that can happen, but it's pretty rare that that actually happens.
Joe Fuld (15:13):
All right. So how do I tell if I need a lobbyist for my advocacy campaign?
Courtney Snowden (15:18):
I think everyone needs a lobbyist for their advocacy campaign. Here's what I think, honestly, if you have an issue before, um, Congress or a state house, or even a city council, you need someone at least advising you about how the process works and how and what you should expect. Even better if you can have someone doing the hard work with you day to day in combat walking into these offices. When people ask me what I do for a living, I tell them often I'm just a relationship builder, right? My job is to make sure that I can get the phone call back. And sometimes when you work closely with elected officials, it's really helpful. Or when you want to work closely or influence elected officials, it's really helpful to have someone that they trust right next to you, fighting with you. Uh, it actually makes all the difference. So I would say anytime you are working to move legislation, you need a lobbyist,
Joe Fuld (16:11):
I get it, but I mean, sometimes small organizations can't afford a professional lobbyist or can't afford one on their own. Is that something where they partner as a coalition and hire a lobbyist? Is it, they work with an organization that might have an in-house lobbyists? What are ways that folks figure that out?
Courtney Snowden (16:28):
Yeah, I think all of that is right. So sometimes one, I think firms, particularly many firms particularly firms in DC have some level of pro bono capacity. And so if you're a smaller organization or you have an idea and you think it's a good one, you could approach one of those firms like blueprint and, and do that work and work with and have them work with you on that. The other thing is to think about a larger coalition that might care deeply about the issues. One, it's always better to work in coalition, but two, if people pool their resources, if organizations pool their resources, they can often get really great lobbyists to do that work for them. But the other thing is there are a lot of organiz- there's no new idea under the sun. We know that, right. And so there's probably somebody already working on an idea or a set of ideas that people in the States or across the country are also thinking about. And so I guarantee you that there's an organization in Washington that cares about it. Even down the underwater basket weaving, you will find someone who cares. And if you, and all you need to do is tap into that organization. Sometimes it just means becoming a member and getting deeply engaged, uh, to find and engage in the most effective advocacy.
Joe Fuld (17:39):
So how does a lobbyist, you talked a little bit about this, but I want to dig into this a little deeper. How does a lobbyist help build relationships with legislative champions or people that going to carry the piece of legislation? Right. How does that happen?
Courtney Snowden (17:53):
It's a really good question. How exactly does that happen? Um, so I'll tell you, uh, I can tell you how I do it and how I have done it. So particularly if you're thinking about Congress, most federal lobbyists have worked on the Hill or spent some time on Capitol Hill working in a legislative office or, uh, on a committee. Uh, they've spent that time really building relationships. Now, not every lobbyist has worked on the Hill, but many of them on Capitol Hill, but many of them have, um, too, it's just like relationship building on anything. So, uh, you literally go in, you schedule meetings, you engage, you hang out with people who work on Capitol Hill or in the state house where they hang out, you talk to them and you start to literally build relationships. But the best way to build a relationship, um, particularly with a staff or a member of Congress is by becoming useful to them. So how can you get them good information? How can you share information that they may not otherwise have? How can you connect them to advocates in their own communities who they may want to get to know, um, and how can you solve problems for them? Uh, and so that's really what we, what we focus on and what I focus on most of my career, really figuring out how to build a relationship and being of service to elected officials, um, so that I can make their job in their lives a little bit easier.
Joe Fuld (19:07):
Yeah. And so where then do constituent stories come into play sort of those impactful constituent stories in moving those folks to action or moving other legislators to action?
Courtney Snowden (19:20):
There is absolutely nothing more valuable than constituents, real constituents, real constituents stories and real constituent engagement. I will tell you that a handwritten letter to a member of Congress is worth almost as much as a check, frankly, it's probably worth more than a check-in in some cases. There is no. And this is one, just back to this misconception question, there's no check. I can write to an elected official that is going to change. That is going to have them act outside of the best interest of their constituents. The constituents are the ones who vote for them. They need them. So I always encourage people to get house of cards. And some of these shows out of their mind, it's a little bit more like the West wing than it is house of cards, right. Um, uh, what did you just ask me, Joe?
Joe Fuld (20:07):
I mean, I asked you about personal stories and how they come into play and that impact
Courtney Snowden (20:13):
So a couple of things, many members of Congress, particularly the House side, but I'm sure on the Senate side too, read some of the handwritten notes that come in from constituents, they're all cataloged, they're all logged, but the ones that are handwritten that someone actually took the time to put a stamp on that were emailed go a long way to communicating something to members of Congress. Like I said, there's nothing more important to elected officials than a voter because ultimately that's going to help keep them in their job. And so the stories of, of their constituents engagement directly from their constituents, it's going to be critical. And it's why you will see corporations, big nonprofits and other membership-based organizations organize their consumers and their members to be the ones to communicate. So often you'll see nonprofits like NEA or AFT the unions or national PTA or the Parkinson's foundation. They'll have a lobby day on Capitol Hill and in state houses around the country, they will take constituents in to the offices of the elected officials to sit and talk to them about the policy agenda and the policy priorities. What that should tell you, and what I know for sure is that means the lobbyist's voice, the paid lobbyist voice is actually one of the least important voices in that context, the actual constituent, the actual vote, or the person who lives in the district is the person that matters the most. And so those stories will be used by the elected officials on their respective floors when they're, when they are participating in committee hearings and will use them for questioning. And sometimes they even invite their constituents to testify on a given issue. So I guess the point is the headline that, and what I'm trying to drive home is that I guarantee it there's nothing more important than a constituent. And now that they're all of these new ways to communicate with elected officials, you'd be surprised at how directly you can get to your elected official. For example, we often, and every everywhere I've worked now that social media has become big, we, we figured out how to use Facebook and Twitter, uh, how to use Instagram, to communicate directly with elected officials and particularly young, like AOC is on Twitter. She is actually doing her own Twitter. And so you can communicate directly with her with what you think she should be doing or give her positive or negative feedback. Well, that's true for a lot of elected officials now, and it's a really important opportunity for folks to take advantage of. I'll just say a lot of professional lobbyists now are use those tactics to coordinate communications directly to an elected official, which has really changed the game for, um, for the work.
Joe Fuld (22:40):
Yeah. And so, um, so talk a little bit about that. I think there's a old school lobbyists that is seen as like, well, say this is a, you know, balding white guy with a cigar in their mouth, right. Who likes, sits down like, you know, somehow the view is they're walking through Capitol Hill with cognac in their hand somehow. And having those conversations, that's like what the stereotype is of the old school. Then the new school is someone who is using technology and like getting people to like tweet out and is never actually meeting with the, the elected officials, but is more of a puppet master, can you give us a sense of like old school versus new school? What, what a sort of good lobbyist is, but like talk about those different approaches.
Courtney Snowden (23:33):
You know, I've been lobbying for 20 years and I have to tell you, I have never had so much fun as to be walking down the hall of the cannon building with cognac in my hand, I wish that was true. Whether or not it is unfortunate.
Joe Fuld (23:48):
That is not what, but again, that is the conception, right?
Courtney Snowden (23:53):
I think, you know, when, when I think about some of the best lobbyists I know, or someone who trained me, there's this guy that both you and I know who recently passed some devastating, uh, loss for our lobbying community, but a guy named Joel packer who was an old school lobbyists. He was like, you know, he used to talk about how he sat in the phone rooms and the hall of the house and the Senate and in the Capitol. Uh, and in the, at that time, I think the old school lobbying was even more direct relationship, right? It was more getting to know the member of Congress, you know, before gift fans and things like that. People did sort of do things to ingratiate themselves, to elected officials. They might drop off a couple of cigars or drop off a really nice bottle of cognac. But again, that never shifted anyone's vote. It just literally built the relationship. Now, lobbying has shifted in, well, what I will say is you still have to walk the halls of Congress or whatever body you still have to build relationships. People still need to be able to see and touch you and know that you're real, but a lot more can happen, um, with direct engagement from constituents. And there's can be a lot more coordination around focusing, can using technology to have more voices weigh in on a particular set of issues. Um, there's lots of really great examples of this, but I'm trying to think of a really good one, um, beyond lobby days, but lots of times, uh, there's, there's a V now there's much more focus and engagement on using all of the levers of communication to get people to weigh in with members or other elected officials. And so it may be Twitter. It may be a phone call. It may be email, um, form letter, but form letters are pretty ineffective.
Joe Fuld (25:34):
Well, I want to get there in a second, but I mean, what I had always, you know, when, when we, when I teach this, I've always said, the most powerful thing is that cup of coffee with a legislator, right? If you can train your members of an organization or advocates in a group to be willing to call their state legislator and say, you know, and this is pre COVID, but still now, Hey, would you meet me at McDonald's for a now socially distant cup of coffee? I have three things I want to talk to you about. Right. Many state legislators will say, sure, I'm in the district on Thursday, meet me at this coffee shop. And that cup of coffee is a very powerful lobbying tool.
Courtney Snowden (26:13):
Yeah, completely. And in fact, now there are a number of elected officials who have coffee hour or meeting routes where they schedule 10 or 15 minutes, uh, for constituents to come and sit and talk, particularly in the district. When I was deputy mayor, I had to do it with the mayor. Uh, and I'll tell you, it is where some of the best ideas have come from. I will also say that now that I have been lobbied, I'm a much better lobbyists, right? Because, uh, there are a couple of things that people do. I think sometimes people focus too much on building the relationship and not enough on the substance of the issue that they want to talk about. And the reality is an elected officials, time is incredibly valuable. Everyone's time is valuable, but they just have so little time. And so many things that they have to knock out in a given day that you got 15 minutes, you got to walk in and tell people exactly what you need for them, what the public policy issue that you're focused on is, and why it matters to you. And in the process of that, you've got to build a relationship, but the most important thing someone can do when they were lobbying me while I was an appointed official, and the thing I always do when I'm lobbying someone is I get, I cut to the chase very quickly. And I get crystal clear about what it is that I need from them, and then making the case about what I, what I want.
Joe Fuld (27:26):
Well, a couple more questions on sort of lobbyists and the type of lobbyist you hire, right? Republican versus democratic lobbyist. How do you make that decision, Courtney?
Courtney Snowden (27:38):
Well, Joe, uh, he knows why I'm laughing at this. Uh, so look, you need, you got to play on both sides of the aisle and in any elected body you know, in Congress you have to have Republicans talking to Republicans, Democrats talking to Democrats, and then there are people who can work both sides of the aisle. And I have, but most people usually work their side. And so you want to make sure that if you are in a state that has a bipartisan legislature, which most States do that you have someone who can communicate with both sides, it's critically important that diversity.
Joe Fuld (28:18):
What do you do to get the most out of a lobbyist, right? You're hiring a lobbyist. How do you make sure you utilize what would be tips for best utilization of a lobbyist?
Courtney Snowden (28:31):
One it's critical to know what you want. So too often clients will come to me and they will have an idea, but they're not exactly sure what they want. And so we'll spend some time getting as crystal clear about the goal as is humanly possible. So for example oh, that's a good one. When I worked for the gay lesbian and straight education network, one thing we thought about was amending major civil rights law to achieve to achieve anti-discrimination in school. Now, there were a bunch of people who had major concerns of us open up title six, or title seven. And so we've figured out that that probably wasn't the best course of action or, or title nine. That's not the best course of action. So what we did was we focused on putting language in the elementary and secondary education act which really helped to create non-discrimination language. And it also created a pot of money for schools to be able to access to effectively educate and train their staff and young people about why about anti-discrimination as it relates to the LGBTQ community. Now, when we initially started to think about that problem, we were thinking about wholesale civil rights legislation. And after some work conversation and strategy, we realized there was a better and easier way to get the same thing achieved. And so one, getting crystal clear about what you want to achieve and what success looks like. And then two, listening to your lobbyists, to help you get to what the best solution is, is really critical. Third. And I think this is really important and we've talked a lot about constituent engagement, but really knowing what your members or the people that you represent care deeply about as an organization, as an individual, all of the people who are impacted by the issue knowing what they care about and knowing how to organize them and figuring out what apparatus is you need, or infrastructure you need to be able to, to coordinate their communication is a critical piece and something that lobbyists can help you do, but you have to know that you need that. Um and then finally, I think the most important thing that a lobbyist can do is help you understand the process and how it actually works and how to accomplish whatever your legislative goal is. Maybe it's a regulatory solution that can be changed through just rewriting an agency rewriting its regs or regulations. Maybe it's something that has to go through Congress. Maybe it's something that already exists in some unclear language, in an appropriations bill that you can act that you can redirect spending to a thing that is a priority for you, but your lobbyist is going to be the person to help you distill some of that. And so knowing what you want being crystal clear about what tools you already have, and then listening to your lobbyists about what other tools you might need to build, I think are the, those are the best ways to get exactly what you want.
Joe Fuld (31:28):
I mean, and I think that idea of making sure the lobbyists knows all the resources that are at your disposal and what you're doing is so critical that goes back to those new school tactics, right? If you're, you know, doing, you know, patch through calling, making sure that the lobbyists gives you advice on here are the districts to be calling into the districts, not to call into if you're going to do virtual lobby days, here are the folks to meet with, right? So all of those things, and I think sometimes what happens is people on the grassroots side or sort of siloed from people on the lobbying side, the comms side is not connected to any of those and making sure you have those sort of three pods, the grassroots, the comms, and the lobbying, all working in concert. It doesn't mean you have to be on the phone all the time, but it means, but having a core understanding of what each sort of leg of the stool is doing is so important.
Courtney Snowden (32:25):
I will tell you one of the things that was, um, really interesting during one of the legislative fights I had, we were winning. We were doing a great job at getting messages to the PR this particular regulator. And the regulator said, we don't need any more call. And the client said, okay, we'll stop calling. And I was working among a team of two or three, uh, lobbyists. And we all said, no, no, no, no, keep going, don't stop because you want, this is the other thing I think sometimes people don't understand if you're applying pressure, particularly for legislative outcomes and it's working, you don't want to stop. You don't want to let them breathe. You want them to continue to feel the pressure. So they continue to do the thing that you need them to do. Um, and so in that instance, they let the pressure up and we lost, but we didn't have to lose. Had we kept the pressure going, uh, we would have won what was a pretty big as in substantial legislative fight all because we listened to the regulator who told us to leave him alone. Yeah.
Joe Fuld (33:24):
So all right. Tips on hiring a lobbyist.
Courtney Snowden (33:26):
Hire me. No kidding.
Joe Fuld (33:29):
Okay. Well, but I mean like can you negotiate on price? What are questions you ask beforehand? Right. Give us like some quick tips on that.
Courtney Snowden (33:39):
Yes. You can always negotiate on price. Smaller firms are typically a little bit more nimble on price, like when hiring any consultant and I'm sure Joe has talked about this on previous podcasts. You want to know who you are getting among the firm. So lots of firms have big shiny names with big well-known names on them. And then you find out two or three months into the relationship that you're actually working with the junior associate, who's been off the Hill for a year. So you want to make sure you know exactly who you're getting and who's going to be doing, doing the work. You want to understand what types of clients they take and how much those clients pay. So there are some firms who only do corporate and don't take retainers less than $30,000 a month. And then there's some firms who work only with nonprofits or smaller nonprofits and take $5,000 a month retainers. But there's a big range in what people make and how much people get paid for this. But you want to know that you're fitting within the sweet spot of your budget, and that these are companies or lobbying firms that are effectively able to work around a certain dollar amount. If you're paying $5,000 a month, you probably shouldn't go to a firm that charges $60,000 a month for most of their clients. It's not going to be a good match. The other thing that I would really be thoughtful about is you want to make sure that you have a firm and firm leaders and professionals that you work with, who are aligned with your values, right? You want people who share your view of the world and, and share your passion for your particular legislative issue. I am the best lobbyist when I'm working on issues that I care deeply about. And I think that's true for most, really good lobbyists. And so making sure that you're working with people who share your perspective is important. The other thing, and I think this is a really important one. Can I say this about Washington? There are a lot of people who love me in Washington. And there are a lot of people who think they're really, really great lobbyists. And so it's also really important to HX and references and talk to some people and get a good sense of what other people think about them. And that may mean that you talk to your elected officials, that made me, and you talked to a handful of people, but you definitely want to get, and you definitely want to understand how people view your lobbyists. Because if lobbying, as I said before is about relationship building. You want to make sure you're working with someone who's respected and liked. Yeah.
Joe Fuld (35:47):
Well, Courtney, thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us. This has gone really fast. Yeah. So, um, anything that you wish I asked you that we didn't get a chance to talk about?
Courtney Snowden (36:04):
Oh, I wish you'd asked me who was the best lobbyist that I know.
Joe Fuld (36:06):
All right. Why don't you tell us that who is the best lobbyist?
Courtney Snowden (36:10):
My kids are the best lobbyists. I know they are the best because they are unrelenting. They set their sight on the target and they are focused on that target no matter what obstacle gets in their way. And so if you ever think about the best, um, the time that your kids or a child really advocated for something for you, be it a keyboard, which is what my son is focused on. His gaming keyboard and a gaming chair. Uh, it is unrelenting. Uh, and though those actually those skills that they embody are the best, the skills that the best lobbyists need to be effective.
Joe Fuld (36:44):
I mean, what I'll tell you is like the best lobbyists I know, are people that are close to the legislator, right? So one of the funniest, you know, inadvertent, right? This was just like a random thing that happened to me in life. That wind up changing policy that I never would have thought of happened was that I took a vacation trip to Seattle and this was with my kids. My kids were really little and I had bought my, um, I had bought a rental car with car seats, right. That I had, um, been told we're going to be there at the end of my journey. Cause I didn't want to carry all those big car seats. And I go to this rental car company that I had paid in advance for the rental car. I had reserved these car seats and I get there and they're like, we can give you the car, but we don't have car seats. And they, there are car seats sitting behind the counter. I'm like, what about those two? And they're like, Oh, well, those are for our like gold members. We can't give you those. I'm like, but you said I could have car seats. And they're like, Hey, sorry, we can't give them to you. And then I called the like aggregator service. Right. Which I won't mention the name, but you can probably figure it out. Right. Um, and I said, Hey, I can't get this car with car seats. Like, and if I go on the highway on violating the law and like, I'm not going to drive my kids in a car without car seats. And they're like, sorry, we're going to charge you anyway. And so I went to another rental car company. I got, I rented a different car with car seats. Got it. It was fine. Like just went down and asked, do you have a car? Can I get car seats found another company to do that? Fine. Then wound up talking to my friend who happened to be on the transportation committee of that state legislature. And that year as a writer to a transportation bill in that state house, they put in a small piece line in legislation that you can't charge someone for a rental car. If, if you can't provide them car seats. Right. Isn't that funny? So, and again, it's like, it goes back to those like personal stories, right. And it could be a constituent, it could be a random friend, but, but in the end, right. I think lobbying is about solving problems. Legislators are trying to solve problems. And I think it's just something like we forget, but that was like that. It was, it was interesting.
Courtney Snowden (39:28):
I mean, I think the thing, the thing that I think is so difficult about it is people, like I said, people really think that there's something dirty about this. And the reality is every single American should be lobbying. They should view themselves as lobbyists. They have stories to tell, they have legislation, legislative ideas that it should improve should improve the quality of their lives and other Americans, they should be, they should view themselves as people who have access and opportunity to communicate with elected officials, you talked to your boy and he passed the law that ultimately will have an impact on your life and the lives of a whole bunch of people in that state. Right. That's amazing. Think about how powerful we are as individuals. Right.
Joe Fuld (40:12):
Well, I mean, what is amazing now, like during COVID is people actually have more access to their government than before these virtual town halls are having more engagement than ever before people are answering the phone more than ever before. So, I mean, there's, there's so much bad parts of COVID, but the whole idea of being able to engage to have this, these virtual meetings can be powerful if we use those tools,
Courtney Snowden (40:37):
Yeah, I know we're out of time, but I'll tell one more story. When, when I was deputy mayor, I was at, um, a reentry commission meeting, which is the commission focused on helping support returning citizens as they come back into the district. And I was talking all about our workforce programs and all of these really great things that we were doing. And this man stands up in the back of the room and he says, deputy mayor, I'll never forget. He says, Deputy Mayor, that all sounds good. But I did 16 years in jail and I got every certification I could get. I got my GED. I can build a house with my bare hands and no one will hire me. And I said, well, you need to stop looking for a job and you need to start your own business. That one interaction created one of the most successful programs of my tenure. Uh, we created something called the aspire to entrepreneurship program, which created, um, which help paid returning citizens to start their own businesses. We train them and pay them to start their own businesses. But it was because one citizen stood up and raised a problem to me in a more clear way than anyone has ever raised a problem. And I, if I, I can solve that and I can solve that relatively easily, let me get to work on that. And my folks in my team went to work and it created something really special. And so the particularly, since we're sort of coming out of what has been a really long election season, it's just so important that people understand how critically important their voice is. It actually really does matter to elected officials. Now we can all find examples of elected officials who may be were doing things that were unethical untoward. But I would say, especially now, I would say though, that's the, that's the exception, not the rule. Most elected officials got in the business of being an elected official because they care very deeply about their communities. And they want to see positive change, which means constituents and people and voters are the most important voices. And so we have to make sure that we engage and tell them how we feel about what it is that they're working on and what we need. And that actually is what lobbying is.
Joe Fuld (42:36):
No doubt. Yeah. Well, Courtney, thanks again for joining us. Yeah. To find out. Yeah. Well, to find out more about, you know, what Courtney's up to and about blueprint strategies, you can check out links in the show notes. I'm also happy to put in there, the black girl magic Peloton edition. And maybe some people can ride with you. We really appreciate your time. Yeah. Thank you, Courtney. We'll be right back.