Listen to the full, raw interview with Amie Kershner of AKM Consulting and former finance director of Priorities USA PAC. Amie answers all your questions about how to run a successful fundraising operation from how to get over your fear of asking strangers for money to how much money you need to raise to win. Amie reveals the one time you should never call your donors to ask for money and the single most important thing you must do immediately after making your fundraising pitch. Tune in to step up your fundraising game and win your campaign.
The full, raw interview with Amie Kershner of AKM Consulting and former finance director of Priorities USA PAC. Amie has had over fourteen years of fundraising experience for major progressive Democratic organizations like Priorities USA and Emily’s List, so when she starts to spill her insider tips and tricks, you will want to take notes! Learn where to find out background research on your donors, how to find and hire a fundraiser, how to determine the amount of money you need to raise, how to get over your fear of asking for money, and how to not talk yourself out of money.-how to reframe your thinking about donors. After tuning in to this great interview you’ll also find out when in your campaign you can expect 50% of your money to come in, the one most important thing to do after making your ask, and when you should never call donors to ask for money. This is a must listen if you want to raise enough money to win your campaign.
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Joe Fuld
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Martín Diego Garcia
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Presented by The Campaign Workshop
Martín Diego Garcia (00:00):
Okay. And we're back and we're joined now by Amy Kershner. Thank you so much, Amy, for joining us.
Amie Kershner (00:05):
Oh yeah, I'm very glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
Martín Diego Garcia (00:08):
Yeah, of course. So Amy founded AKM Consulting back in 2011 after spending about a decade or so fundraising for candidates, progressive organizations, party committees and actually during the 2016 election, she was the finance director for Priorities USA Action, which was Senator Clinton's PAC and raised over $175 million for the campaign, which is quite astounding. In addition to that has fundraised for a variety of campaigns, causes candidates and organizations all across the country and up and down the ballot. And so we're really excited to have her expertise and her insight as we dig into probably what is one of the most important pieces of a campaign is to raise some money to make sure you can actually run a successful one. And it often happens to be one of the pieces that most candidates are maybe wary or afraid of. It's one of the things that I would be afraid of if I were a candidate. So Amy, considering most candidates may be scared of doing this fundraising piece, what drove you to make a profession out of it?
Amie Kershner (01:10):
That's a, that's a very good question. When I get asked a lot so, you know, I think most people end up in fundraising one way or the other largely by accident which is how I found myself doing fundraising. I was a communications sort of major in college and I was working at a PR firm when I sort of had this drive to, to get involved in political campaigns in some capacity I was really unfamiliar with what that could mean. So I did a series of informational interviews that all of a sudden led me to being offered a fundraising job for a governor's race in my home state. And, you know, after telling them, I didn't really know what fundraising was. They said, that's okay, it's fine. We'll teach you and handed me a manual and stuck me on a plane back to back to Kansas. And that's how I got started. So it was three months of a pretty big sprint and learning as I, as I went along. And what I sort of figured out pretty quickly was that, you know, you you sort of have to have the funds and the resources you need, if you're going to really be able to make a run at campaigns, especially ones that are tough. And I figured out I was pretty good at it. So I thought I'd just try one more campaign, see if I liked fundraising and one more became another one and then another one, and then another one. And it turns out that this many years later, this is what I do for a living. So and I, you know, along the way really learned like some nuances to it and it became less of an accident, more of a, of a choice, but but that is exactly how I found myself in it. I wish there was a better story, but that's, that's the one we have.
Martín Diego Garcia (03:02):
You were not the only person or fundraiser that I've run into, who has a similar sort of fall into the career story. I mean, I felt like I sort of fell into the training space as well and have ended up loving it. And, and, and again, right after doing a couple, you get, you're like, Oh, I really like this, and I'm good at it. And just continue to do it and make a career out of it. As you think back on all of the numbers of organizations, causes, campaigns that you worked on is there any particular one that sort of sticks out as memorable to you?
Amie Kershner (03:36):
Sure. so I, you know, I think they're, they're all very special as I would say, and their own in their own ways. But there were a couple that you know, that, that really stand out, obviously my first one where, you know, I was really just trying, trying my hat, you know, at, at campaigning at all and was really fortunate enough to do it in my home state for a Democrat, which didn't happen very often and and, you know, and mattered to me. And then, you know, we were able to kind of pull off a surprise win which was a big deal and a bigger deal than I even realized at the time. So I think that one really stands out. You know, I, I worked on a few races in between that one and Claire McCaskill's race for governor. Um but that one really stands out because it was the one where I was on a significant amount of time, amount of time, longer and had a really unique role where I was traveling with her. And we were fundraising on the road as she, you know, hit every corner of a very large state. And unfortunately the result that evening was not an election night was not the same as it had been on my first race. And so it was a real heartbreak. And I think that stands out because, you know, I think you have those defining moments where you put everything you have into a lot of these races, and when it doesn't turn out, you have to make a decision on whether you're going to stay in the game or you're going to go try to find something else. And that was a big defining moment for me. And I decided to stay in and really am glad I did, because it led me to Emily's List, which took, I think sort of a gritty, the gritty campaign fundraising side of me, and turned me into a much better development side. And for you know, for folks listening who don't know what Emily's List is, it's an organization designed to support women running for office, Democratic women running for office. It had been an organization that had supported me through trainings and really helps me become a better fundraiser while I was on these campaigns. And so my big dream was to work there. And I was lucky that there was an, there was a spot that allowed me to do so, but what it really taught me was, you know, sort of the movement from just, you know, trying to turn to raise to a quick budget, a quick budget, a quick budget to more of a long term development plan. So I would say I went from fundraiser to development officer pretty quickly. And that was a, a big jump. And so I'm glad I stuck it out and, you know, everything I've sort of done since then has been launched from those couple of moments. So, yeah.
Martín Diego Garcia (06:25):
Wow. That's fantastic. So as you're working with candidates are there any sort of tips or tricks that when you start to fundraise as a candidate should be thinking about that advice you can offer?
Amie Kershner (06:37):
Yeah. I mean, I have so, so much advice. So, you know, I think, I think you'll probably find yourself with someone who was the me, you know, 15 years ago, who's probably pretty green and is trying to explain to you something that maybe they don't fully understand themselves, but you know, and that can be a really challenging situation, but you know, this, it is okay to be nervous about this and it is okay to be uncomfortable about this. And, you know, I think it's, I, I look back and think of all the times I ask people to just like, sit in a chair and do this when it was so clearly something that was just not, you know, second nature to most people. You know, and I think knowing that going in that accepting that those are two really OK. Motions. but then also accepting that if you want to do this other big thing, you have to get through this. So so I ask all of my candidates that I work with now just sort of shift their thinking, right? The first thing we try to do is we shift the thinking from you, we're asking people to give you something right. So I actually don't I don't refer to, I used to refer to people who give as donors, and now I can now refer to them as funders or investors, right? Because it is a much more accurate description of what they are. They are investing in this idea that you will be a good representative for whatever it is you're running for. So you're not asking them to invest in your, I'd like to buy a new pair of sneakers fund, right? This is, this is not that you're investing in, they're investing in the ideas you are carrying forth as your platform and in your ability to, to run a good campaign. And part of doing that is to meet your fundraising requirements. So, so once we sort of shift our thinking that way, I think it helps people make the asks a little bit easier. You know, when it does, it does initially feel like you're asking someone for sort of a handout and that is a no way what this is, right?
Martín Diego Garcia (08:53):
Yeah, no, couldn't agree more. I think I had a fundraiser who has similarly sort of shifted that mindset around fundraising for me. I mean, folks want to contribute and folks want to contribute in a very different way, whether that's volunteering or voting for you. And some people don't have the time to volunteer or they don't live in your district and the way that they can support you and your vision and your ideas to bettering the community is by giving money.
Amie Kershner (09:20):
Absolutely. Yeah.
Martín Diego Garcia (09:22):
And so we've talked earlier around messaging and sort of, how do you hone in a message, particularly when you're talking to voters whether you're talking to your base or persuadable voters, how is a fundraising pitch sort of different than that? Or is it, and what sort of makes a good fundraising pitch?
Amie Kershner (09:41):
Right. So so a couple of things, I think, I think in some ways that can be very similar, right? Especially if you're talking to people and I think it's, you know, I think it's probably important for your listeners to know, depending on what kind of campaign they're running, they may only be calling people that are directly impacted by whether or not they're elected, but often they might be calling people who aren't in any way impacted directly impacted by whether or not they're elected. So so I think the conversations are a little bit different, right? If you're talking to people who are in your in your district or, you know, in your state, your message is somewhat similar right? You have to remember, you're often you're talking to people who write checks, but also can vote for you. And I think that's really important. Um but when you're talking to people outside of your district, outside of your state, who may or may not sometimes be able to pick your state off a map, which happens sometimes you know, I think it's trying to figure out, you know, there was a reason there's a reason someone suggested that you call this person, you may know them personally or you may not. And so what was that reason? And so I think it's talking directly to, you know, sort of their needs, right? We're in a unique time, right? And I actually think this is a great time to be fundraising truthfully. Because to a previous point, there, there are a lot of people out there wondering what they can do right there is they there's this feeling that they have to do something. And so what we're seeing is a pretty big uptick in the number of people who are becoming investors in these campaigns. And, you know, they're, they're getting more organized and they're getting more thoughtful. And oftentimes a lot of these groups have really stated platforms on the things that they care the most about, and they're going to support candidates who speak to those platforms. But you know, I'm a big fan of doing some pretty simple research on someone to figure out a little bit about their backgrounds. You know, if they have a giving history, does it follow some kind of pattern? Do they give a lot, you know, they give only to women. Did they give heavily to women that gives you kind of a glimpse, into maybe something, you know, something that they care passionately about or, you know, are they, you know, do they have a lot of environmental giving or, you know, it can give you sort of some, some tips and to what are some points you want to stress with them? Um my also my advice is don't tell people just what you think they want to hear. You have to be genuine. Funders are really smart and they can tell when you're not being genuine. So I think, you know, don't tell them something that's not true, they'll see right through it. And you know, and so tell them, you know, what it is you actually do stand for and what you'll, you know, what you'll do when you're elected. And I think you know, they'll support you or they won't, that's, that's the, there are two results on any given fundraising pitch. Right. And or sometimes there's a, maybe which is kind of annoying, but, you know, it's fine, but usually it ends one of two ways. And, you know, I would say more often you end up with yes, then you end up with nos and no one ever died from hearing the word "no." So, you know, you'll you'll survive.
Martín Diego Garcia (12:56):
Right, right. Right. I mean, and, and for folks who are just sort of starting out and have no idea where to even find that information where, I mean, as they're researching donors or potential givers, where would you find that?
Amie Kershner (13:08):
Sure. well, the good news is the internet exists in a way that it didn't when I was first starting out to do this. So you know, so the ability to, to do some pretty simple Googling is, is available. And a lot of times you can find some really interesting things. A lot of these, you know, a lot of these fenders are repeat funders, so there's a lot out there on them. There's you know, there were a couple of websites there's Open Secrets, right? They, they have a pretty good database that you can search through. You can obviously search through the FEC, which is the you know, the official site. I find it a bit arduous, but you can do it if you want to. And then I, you know, I like Political Money Line. It's a paid subscription, but if you're doing a lot of this and you're doing a pretty robust search, I find it to be probably the most user friendly. But you can get your information from, from free sites as well. It's not going to be a huge hindrance unless you're, you know, trying to raise 20 to $25 million, then maybe go ahead and splurge on the, on the subscription to save yourself some time.
Martín Diego Garcia (14:18):
Right. That's super helpful. And I mean, and I think even if they're not on the FEC or Open Secrets or, or one of these sites, right. Looking at their Facebook or their LinkedIn to figure out, like, what are the things that they've liked or boards that they're on or things that they're involved in, I think is also helpful, I would imagine to understanding sort of why they give or why they would give.
Amie Kershner (14:37):
Right. Absolutely. You know, and, and I think, I think having information can be very powerful. I would, I would also just from my, from a practitioner side of things who works with a lot of candidates don't let perfection be the enemy of the good here. I have a lot of, because there is so much information available. I have perhaps a few candidates who use it as a stall tactic to actually having to make fundraising calls. The internet can provide an endless amount of information if you dig long enough, it's just a matter of whether or not you want to make any calls that day or not. So so I would say, you know, get, get a pretty good baseline. So you have a sense of like what it is they do for a living or what they're involved in. You know, but I, I do think knowing what their third grade dog's name was, might be a bit weird and I can't imagine how it would come up in a conversation. So yeah, so it might be a little too much.
Martín Diego Garcia (15:36):
Right. So for candidates, would we sort of in a training space and ask folks, right, raise your hand, if you'd rather ask a stranger versus asking your friend, I think we get a, sort of a mixed response to that, but for folks who are maybe wary or scared or seem awkward to be asking their friends and family to invest in their campaign, what kind of advice would you give them?
Amie Kershner (16:00):
Um so, you know, I think this is really normal, right. I actually I ran for office
Martín Diego Garcia (16:10):
Oh, I didn't know that.
Martín Diego Garcia (16:10):
Yeah, it's very hidden. It's one of those I try to keep off of uh Google. So no, I when I was living in Baltimore, I ran for Democratic Central Committee, which is kind of uh there's no way to describe it. It's very odd. But but it's not traditionally a campaign that people would raise money for, but I'm not exactly your traditional candidate. So for a race like that. So so, you know, someone said you should fundraise, but that wasn't a bad idea. I probably should. But then when it really came down to having to make a list and call my friends and family, I was like, wow, this is really hard. And I gave me a newfound appreciation for exactly, you know, what I'd been asking people I'd worked with before to do so. But how I got through it was, was really that shift in mindset. Right. when I, when I stopped sort of asking, like I was asking for, you know, I'd like this for my birthday gift, right? Like it wasn't, it wasn't that, it was talking about why I wanted to do this and what I thought I would bring it to the position when I was elected. You know, and I think, you know, I think your friends and family always surprise you. Right. And I think they, they oftentimes believe in you a little bit more than you even believe in yourself. So so the response I had was really good. You know, and so I think like you just kind of have to rip the bandaid off on that one sometimes and just start, and then, you know, hopefully you have really nice friends and family that it won't make it too hard on you. Um but you know, but I think if you asked me whether I'd rather call people, I know, or I'd rather just like be handed a stack of people, I'd probably pick the stack of people. I don't know. And because I feel like I could do a pretty good fundraising pitch. But that's not a realistic way to start funding a campaign. It's not, it's not the fastest, it's not the best practice. And you really should go to the people who know you, who already believe in you and, and start to get their investment. And once you build that base, you can expand out.
Martín Diego Garcia (18:19):
I mean, I feel like they're, they're often the lowest hanging fruit because, because they know you and they want to see you succeed and they want to support you. Right. Although I've definitely heard the candidate or to talk about how getting a check out of their parents or their mom or dad was probably the hardest check versus getting it out of some other friends or family members, which can't be the case. Right. Right. Exactly. So shifting gears here to sort of what a fundraising team, so say a candidate has the resources to, to build a team, they have a campaign manager they're bringing on a fundraising team. Can you talk a little bit about sort of what they should be looking about are looking for in candidates that they're hiring and sort of the difference between like a smaller race and like a much larger race?
Amie Kershner (19:03):
Sure, absolutely. So so I've, you know, I've been involved in races of all sizes. And so I've been the sole finance person on a longer shot congressional, and I've been one of you know, 18 member fundraising team on a much larger Senate race or governor's race. So so they really do vary. I think you know, the things that you you want out of your finance team are, you know, sort of a passion for what you're doing, right. This is oftentimes this is sort of like, you know, the least exciting part of the campaign. Most people assume it's going to be the most important part because all they see are those very frontward facing galas and the big parties. And and those come much later and are actually rarely, very much fun for the fundraisers because they're usually working. So but you know, they're going to be grinding out doing a lot of donor research. They're going to be, you know following up on pledges and, you know, and then following up again, when those pledges don't come in, they're going to be doing a fair amount of accounting sometimes. So, you know, so I think what you're looking for is someone who has enthusiasm for what you're doing. Who's really bought in to, you know, making the most of the experience they're getting growing and learning. So I actually don't, you know, I don't dissuade folks from, from hiring people who maybe on paper, don't check every single qualification box. I think there's something to be said for having to hustle a little bit and try to figure some things out as you go. And I'm probably a little biased because I think those were opportunities I was handed. Um I, you know, I'm, I'm fond of saying I had a few jobs I never should have had but was able to make it work. And so I think, you know, you can really get some great talent by taking a risk on someone after you meet them. And you just know what kind of feels, right. Even though it may not be perfect on paper. And then the number one thing that all fundraisers have to be is detail oriented. And I can't stress that enough. It is a, it is a job that is, you know, won or lost in the details. So keeping track of everything and you know, you, they're going to be interfacing with people that are going to fund your campaign. And so making sure that the thank you notes have names spelled correctly and you know, and are free of typos. You know, all of those things are incredibly important because they re reflect upon you and on your campaign. So so I would say that those are the questions I ask when I'm talking to people about working on campaigns and I do, you know, encourage writing samples, right. It's sort of a very old school thing that not a lot of people do anymore, but because they're going to be, you know, there's going to be a lot of email back and forth, or thank you notes and things like that. You do want to see, you know, sort of that component and where you start from at least.
Martín Diego Garcia (22:10):
Yeah. Could you talk a little bit about the difference between, say like a call manager who would sort of sit with you during call time to make sure that you're actually making calls and the like finance director, or like a, like a fundraising director on a campaign?
Amie Kershner (22:24):
Yeah, absolutely. So so, you know, I, I'm very biased that I think call time manager is is the hardest job on a campaign it's harder than being the finance director because you have to come in every day well-prepared and with a good attitude and you have to keep that good attitude no matter what happens. So we'll start with that, with that op you know, that position you know, this person is the person who's going to sit there and oftentimes listen to the results of the conversations you're having so that, you know, they're tracking the, what our pledge was made, what the necessary followup. But I think more importantly in great call time managers do this, they catch the details of the call. It is highly unlikely. You will call someone one time during a campaign. You'll probably call them two, three, four or five times. And being able to reference something that happened in a previous call is really invaluable. It is almost the big difference between, you know, success and, and, and not because, you know, while this could be your 487th call that you've made since then, you know, odds are they really do remember the first call that they had with you. And so if you can cite some, you know, some interaction, it meant a lot to them. And it will certainly mean a lot to them when you're able to sort of call it back and that, you know, in the next followup call. So so I think that's a really important job and it's sort of the linchpin for everything else. So the call time manager then takes all of this information that happened during call time, back out to the finance team. And it's usually directly to the finance director. So the finance director is I think the best way to say it as the COO, right. So they are keeping the master of fundraising plan. So they know what we need to get to every quarter, how we need, what we need to get to total, how are we going to get there? What components do we need to put into place to get there and what it means if some of those don't hit the goals that they need to. So they're constantly sort of adjusting they're managing the fundraising team looking to see, you know, do we have the right number of people working in areas that we're doing really well in, because we want to make sure we're like, not stretched too thin there. And if there are areas where maybe we're not doing so well, can we shift resources? Um you know, and they're typically more of a senior level person on the campaign. I put them, I put them typically right underneath the campaign manager. I tend to think that's probably where they belong. And you know, so they become sort of the, like for your biggest and most you know, heavily invested funders. They're the ones that they interface, you know, they interface with the finance director more often than sort of a junior level staffer would. So, you know, so I think you're going to want to help the amount of experience from that person. You know, everybody has to manage people for the first time sometime. And so it's possible depending on the size of your race, you may not be able to get somebody who's managed before. And management's really hard. It's probably the hardest thing for me to learn. Um when I was, you know, I was a pretty good fundraiser. I was just not a great manager and, you know, it's still something that I work on. So so I think, you know, being realistic that you're not going to have somebody who's managed a team of 40, who's going to walk into your campaign ready to go feels unlikely. But but you know, having those leadership skills are really important in that role. This is often not easy. And you know, it is a very pressure filled role. You know, it is, it is the one thing that pretty often people can point to success or failure right? They're numbers, and they don't lie. So, you know, and so there was a lot of pressure that comes with those
Martín Diego Garcia (26:30):
As we talk about sort of what you should be paying your fundraisers. I want to sort of touch on two things, two pieces here, the difference between sort of hiring your campaign team, right. And your sort of hiring of staffer for versus hiring a consultant. Can you talk a little bit if there's like a range or what candidates should be considering or potential fundraisers as they're looking to be hired onto campaigns should be considering when they are talking about salary and on the flip side sort of, are there different ways you can pay or hire a professional fundraiser or a fundraising consultant?
Amie Kershner (27:08):
Sure, absolutely. So so it's a pretty simple question with not a simple answer. So so I think you know, with, with regard to the fact that this could cause a riot among my fellow consultants I think my advice would be if, and when you have the opportunity to hire someone who will be a full time staff person, you should do that in lieu of a fundraising consultant. And I say that because I think, you know, consultants, bring a ton of value and a ton of experience, but if you have the opportunity to hire somebody who every day wakes up and knows that their one job that they have to do that day is to move your own priorities forward that's really helpful, right? You're not competing with two, three, four or five, six clients, you're the priority every day. So so if you have that opportunity, even if it's somebody who's a little greener, I'd say, go for it. Finding fundraising talent can be really tough sometimes. So you know, so that may not always be an option and not all consultants are, you know, are bad, obviously. I don't think so. So if I did, that would be really awkward, but, you know, but I do think I do think that's a, that's a balance you have to really think about. You know, so paying fundraising staff you know, this is the, this is the piece where I think it's, there are two places where, you know, it behooves you to spend money, right? Your campaign manager, or the person who's going to pull this whole thing together, who's going to have a big job managing the entire team and the operation. And most of the time, you, even though you may not realize it, you need to be managed. Um but the finance person, they're usually one of the first people on the ground. And if they're not, they should be you can't do much without money, so they should be there. So, you know, it's hard because these are these races or, you know, the, the amount of money being raised in these races is so much more robust than it used to be. So I used to have a pretty good sense of ratio, and now that is all out the window. But you know, when it's not unreasonable, I'll give some sort of scale here. It's really not unreasonable on a top tier congressional race where, you know, you're going to need to raise, you know, $8 million to be paying your finance director, you know, about in the neighborhood of like eight to $10,000 a month. It feels like a lot of money, but when you overall, you know, look at the overall budget and the amount of money they're responsible for you know, that's pretty in scale. Um obviously if you're gonna have to raise that amount of money, they're going to be managing a larger team. So, you know, so the work is, is much more robust. Smaller scale races, obviously with lower budgets, you will get less experience, but but obviously they come with a little bit of a lower price tag and then, you know, large statewide races, just, they, they range all over the place. So you know, so you'll probably go upwards of 10 10 to 15 for a finance director on a big statewide Senate race and presidentials, I can't even begin to guess, so more money than we should talk about. So and then consultants really also range across the board. The biggest question I get asked is do I do a retainer or do I do a percentage? Um so I know people who do both and I have done, I've never done a straight percentage. It's just not, I have overhead, I have things that I have to do every day. So I've never done that. I've done a lower retainer with a with a percentage built in on top of that, but I typically keep those reserved for sort of the more institutional organizations that have a, have a pretty good infrastructure. For all candidates I only do a flat fee retainer, and I do that just because I know the amount of time I'm setting aside to do this every day. I know exactly where this fits in with our time budget, with our staff budget, with every piece of it. And over the last few years, I've learned that, that my work only gets us three quarters of the way to where we need to the last quarter of the way we need, where we need to get to is entirely dependent on the candidate. And I've had candidates who do all the work and we get there and everything's great. And I've had candidates who don't do the work and we sort of don't get there and due to no, no fault of my own. So so I do that sort of as a, you know, just sort of as a, this is the standard and this is how we do it. And you know, I think most consultants by and large are really good actors and take on work that they like and take on work that they are able to actually do. So you know, I think most of my clients would probably say that they got far more payout than the investment that they made. And that's a good feeling, right? That's exactly how I would like every client to walk away from the relationship or continue the relationship, in fact, most of them more often you know, that's the goal, right?
Martín Diego Garcia (32:30):
And so as candidates are starting to figure out sort of what is this mysterious number that I need to raise? Where would you point them to figuring out sort of how much money they would actually need to raise to be even competitive in a campaign?
Amie Kershner (32:44):
Right. so, you know, so I think the biggest, ideally part of your campaign team that you're putting together are, you know, your campaign manager, but also your consulting team. So the people who are going to do, if you're going to do media of any kind your media consultant your, your digital consultant, if you have one or some sort of digital infrastructure, right, the world doesn't just end, doesn't just exist without the internet these days your direct mail consultant you know, all of the tools where you think you're going to need to win they should all really be able to provide sort of some baseline estimates for if this is your win number, here's how you need to communicate with them. You know, it's all, it's all sort of a big gas at the beginning, right? You don't really know what your opponent's going to do. You don't really know what outside force is going to play into this. So campaign budgets can swing pretty widely but they should give you a pretty good baseline budget. And, you know, I mean, all, I think all campaigns you know, have a high and a low budget and, you know, the, the gap between those two is usually pretty wide, which I find to be interesting, but but it gives you a sense of what you're going to need to raise. You know, I think if, if you are just the person who just immediately knows what your cost per point on your media market is, that's impressive, but most people don't know what that is, and I don't ever, you know, it changes so, Oh and cost per point is honestly, I actually don't actually know what it is truthfully, but it's, it's how much you're going to need to pay to run, you know, a 3 second television spot, whether it's on cable, whether it's on broadcast. Um so and then I certainly do not understand how digital world works. So I'm sure that you pay somebody some money to do something. I just don't know what that is. So you know, but that's why you have, should have a good campaign team in place who can give you those good estimates. They've done this before, you know, they've rarely not seen something so they can give you some ideas. But you know, I, I would say, you know, do a high budget and a low budget so that you know, what your very low baseline is, you know, where you have to work from.
Martín Diego Garcia (35:05):
Yeah, we have to say the budget is sort of like your roadmap, right? Whether it's your low budget or your high budget, if you're sort of scraping by on the minimum, you need to run this campaign, you know, where your money's going, or if you get an influx of money, you also know where your money can go. Right. And in the same way you need, like, you need a fundraising plan, right. To get to both of those budgets, what should go into a fundraising plan as candidates are starting to create them?
Amie Kershner (35:28):
Oh, sure. Sure. So so the place I like to start is I, you know, I sort of start every plan by it's all an Excel spreadsheet. That's, that's my one piece of advice, never do a fundraising plan in Word. I don't know why people would ever do that. So you put it in Excel so it can sum, sum itself. But I do the buckets. So how are you gonna raise your money? How, you know, how much do you think you need to raise from call time, which is just straight asking people for money. Are you going to do events? Well, what kind of events are you going to do? And then you start mapping that out. Are you going to do fundraising direct mail which is different than voter contact mail, right? Believe it or not, it's still a very lucrative tool that some campaigns can utilize. Um and what is your digital fundraising look like? Does it, is it robust? Is it not? Digital fundraising is a really tough piece, right? I think it sort of like was a switch that flipped really quickly and it sort of became this thing. And now every candidate just assumes, there's a lot of money that rains in from the internet, which isn't like, in fact, not the case. So I do see some overestimations there often, but so, you know, I start that way and then I start peeling back the layers on it. So, you know, under the events events, category, I really drill down into like, who's going to host events for me, how much do I think they can realistically raise? And you do targeting that way. You know, and the one thing I say about fundraising plans is if the plan you wrote at the beginning is the plan you ended with at the end, you did something really wrong. Um so it, it just doesn't have, it means you didn't really update it very well. So you know, how you assume the money is going to come in is never entirely the case. There will be money you didn't see coming that will show up. There'll be someone you were a hundred percent sure would do this event and it would hit goal and they completely whiff on it. And it just doesn't get there. But that's the point of the plan, because I think otherwise when those kinds of things happen, you're not able to make those adjustments because you can't look at a document to see how it all is working together. So you know, I think most especially on the federal level, this is so it can be so wide ranging on different state and municipal levels, but, you know, for federal level races, they all file on the quarter. Um which is really nice. It creates sort of these unique artificial deadlines that are real deadlines, right? You're going to file a thing. They become more hair on fire deadlines it feels like in the last five years, but but it gives you some sense of, okay, every three months we get to measure how we thought we were going to do versus how we actually did. And so, you know, so bucket it out by tool, but then also start to bucket it out by, by tool and by quarter. And then, you know, the frustrating part of fundraising for anyone, including fundraisers is the completely unpredicted money that just rolls in at the end for no good reason. And you don't know why everybody just waited, but they did. And you know, it's a really hard thing. Managers don't like it candidates don't like it fundraisers really don't like it. Um because it's harder to spend, you have to sort of take a, take a flyer and assume that that money is gonna come. It always does. I don't know why it just does. So probably these artificial deadlines, but you know, but you build those into your plan so that you aren't entirely surprised by it. And then the worst thing in the world, I think is, you know, at the end of a campaign, you didn't plan for that. You lose by, you know, less than a percentage point and you have a hundred thousand dollars in the bank, you know, what could you have done with that? You know, if you just planned for it it's the worst feeling in the world, so.
Martín Diego Garcia (39:22):
I mean, and, and as you talk about sort of planning for these deadlines, planning for quarters, et cetera, can you talk a little bit about sort of the ebb and flow of when, at what points in the campaign your, you should be expecting good bit of money versus not?
Amie Kershner (39:36):
Yeah, I'm sure. So, you know, so the last the, when I was doing trainings, what we would tell campaigns as they should expect 50% of their money to come in at the last, like quarter to quarter and a half of the campaign. I think it's gotten a little bit better than that, but, you know, it's definitely not too far off of that ratio that can make budgeting really difficult. But it's, you know, it's a pretty good time. Your campaign should be at full swing at full staff at full speed that lasts, you know, that last quarter, it's when you have your, all of your field people and it's when you have, you know, every person who's ever going to say that they worked on your campaign will be working there in the last quarter. So so it'll be your biggest staff, you know, it all sort of makes sense and it does work together. Um the other thing too, that I just tell people is, you know, really think about like how people live their lives. Right. I think one of the things that campaign staff and candidates sort of forget, because we're immersed in it all day is that this is all we think about, and this is all that we do, you know, look, spring break is a real thing for people. They go away with their families. August is a real thing for people. I don't know where every rich person in the country goes, but they go somewhere in August without phones. So I don't, that's, that's all I've deciphered in the last 15 years. So you know, so you should plan for those things rather than just be surprised and annoyed by it. So, you know, I think I think if you acknowledge sort of the realities you know, the other, the other piece that I would say is like, you know, be creative and think through how you're doing things. Um if you are in a place where football is a really big thing, don't call on Sundays during the game. Right. And don't do that. It's a bad idea. You know, but then likewise, I am a big fan of thinking through like, did your, does your town just get a big snow storm? That's keeping everyone home, what a great opportunity to call them. They can't go anywhere. So so I think being creative and trying to be nimble you know, they're snowed in, they don't have anything to do anyway. They might as well chat with you. So so I think, you know, trying to be nimble and be thoughtful about how people actually live their lives will serve you well.
Martín Diego Garcia (41:59):
Yeah. And as these candidates are sort of calling these folks, when they're snowed in, in their homes, we often get responses back from folks around tucking themselves, out of money that the funder, the investor would potentially give them. And we've heard a number of funny stories about, or tips and tricks about how to stop yourself being like, can you give me a hundred dollars? Well, how about $75? Well, how about $50? And then all of a sudden you're giving them money, but any tips or tricks for candidates as they just stop themselves from talking themselves out of money?
Amie Kershner (42:32):
Yeah. I mean, I think they've probably heard this a few times. Right. But you know, one of the things that, you know, I feel like candidates always feel like they have to do is just give all of the information that they possibly can. And so these, you know, and this goes back to my, my original you know, advice, which was, you know, think about how people live their lives, right? Like truthfully, no one really wants to be on the phone with you for 15 minutes having you tell them every tiny bit of nuance about the district and about who you are. And you know, and I think a lot of times these become more telemarketing than they should be. Right. So when you think about a telemarketing call, right, it's a very one way sort of thing. This is not that, this is a conversation. So you know, so I do think you, you give a little bit of information, a little context about why you might be a stranger calling them. But don't forget to be able to ask questions and do some ebb and flow there. And I think once it becomes more conversational, it becomes more comfortable. The, I think the times that I do see people talk themselves out of people giving is when they just keep talking. So, you know, so your call time manager should work with you on this, and should continually work on this. But when I was, I call time manager I had a card that I would just like slide across the table. That was like, you have to make the ask now. And that way they knew like it was time. And so because otherwise they could go on for 10 more minutes. And by that time, that person is so tired of talking that they're just going to hang up eventually. So and then after you make the ask, take a pause. That is the thing that no one does. And then they keep talking and there is so much power in awkward silence. It's, you know, you've just made an ask, let them respond before you respond for them. So the, one of the best people I'd ever worked with for fundraising would take a drink of water immediately, and she wasn't really thirsty, but it was a really good way to shut up. So so have a, have a bottle of water nearby and take a drink.
Martín Diego Garcia (44:55):
Well, thank you so much, Amy, for joining us and for your insights on fundraising, you've definitely made it a little bit less scary for me. And hopefully for some of the candidates who were potentially jumping into a race.
Amie Kershner (45:06):
Oh, well, good, good. I was very glad to do it. So I hope, I hope everyone has a great success raising lots of money.
Martín Diego Garcia (45:13):
I'm sure they will. I'm sure they will. Well, if you have any questions about what we did or didn't cover in this episode, please feel free to reach out to us by email or social media. And we'll definitely put some of our blog articles in the episode description for you to check out.